IF Lebron goes to NY...how does that affect us?

THE PISTONS · 05-31-2009, 09:35 AM

Basically with their loss this year, I could see him leaving if they don't win it all next year either. Really if he has to carry a team in either place, why wouldn't he go to NY where they could potentially add another super star like Wade.

So...if Lebron does go to NY, how would that affect our free agency? Does it increase our chances of adding Bosh? What other domino's will fall? Does it actually hurt our chances of adding a star? Should it affect Joe's strategy this year?

Hobbs · 05-31-2009, 09:38 AM

I don't think we're going to be shopping for free agents that year. I know it seems a popular theory around here that we'll roll the money into next offseason, but I put that at about a 10% chance. Dumars will make his move now.

hack · 05-31-2009, 09:41 AM

I don't know that to be true, unless he's made up his mind on Boozer or Millsap. Even then, that's not really blowing our load. I could very well see Joe taking a pass for now.

That said, if LeBron goes to New York, we're dead. If Bosh or Amare don't end up there with him, the next great interior FA will, and then it's just a matter of using filling in the blanks and the MLE wisely.

Hobbs · 05-31-2009, 09:44 AM

That's limiting our options entirely to FA. Dumars isn't doing that. Even if he passes on the Utah duo, he can make moves to improve us (not to mention other free agents like David Lee he may or may not want).

THE PISTONS · 05-31-2009, 09:49 AM

Even if we spend most of the money, we could still do an S&T assumiung what we sign is considered a treadeable asset I suppose.

Do you think that Lebron leaving will make more players change teams or less?

Cleveland would have a pretty big void. I could see them going after a Yao Ming.

THE PISTONS · 05-31-2009, 09:50 AM

To expand on the Hacks point too about the MLE...IF Lebron is in NY, I could see really good players coming there for the MLE to win a title. Plus they would have the other NY perks like endorsements.

tin mad dog · 05-31-2009, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hack

.

That said, if LeBron goes to New York, we're dead. If Bosh or Amare don't end up there with him, the next great interior FA will, and then it's just a matter of using filling in the blanks and the MLE wisely.

Just wondering if you think NY already has the better assortment of other players to put around him than Cleveland does?

THE PISTONS · 05-31-2009, 11:25 AM

NY does have talent on its roster. It is just unfocused talent though.

Adding Ben Wallace actually probably really hurt Cleveland.

tin mad dog · 05-31-2009, 12:18 PM

Yeah, I think Gooden and Hughes gave them more. They may not have gone after Mo, though. All 3 players in the deal have kind of fallen off a bit.

Nick · 05-31-2009, 03:09 PM

If NYK's are under the cap then they won't have the midlevel and you know Cleveland isn't going to sign and trade LeBron unless they're gettin 20 1st round picks back.

Mike Brown is a horrible coach. LeBron had a pretty good team around him this year, they just didn't get it done. If he goes to the Knicks it will take them a few years to get quality talent around him to win it, by that point who knows what the league will look like and what condition he'll be in.

Diddy · 05-31-2009, 03:12 PM

By that time, Stuckey will be twice as good as Lebron and averaging 43 points a game. He will also be a pass-first pg.

Nick · 05-31-2009, 03:42 PM

I don't visit the same website you do, so you might be right.

whoDean · 05-31-2009, 03:53 PM

The idea that Lebron had a good team around him is wrong, Mo Williams was the only other starting caliber player on that roster.

hack · 05-31-2009, 04:02 PM

I don't think NYC does now, but assuming LeBron brings a bosh-type talent with him, they'll be over the cap in plenty time to start raking in the MLE types.

Hobbs, agreed on trades, but it's been noted that adding the complementary types first wastes the cap space. Joe may want to get the star first, and then build around him, no? If no star this offseason, he could wait. I'm assuming that Joe sees that a star's what's needed.

Hobbs · 05-31-2009, 04:58 PM

I don't agree with the idea that complimentary types necessarily waste cap space (there is a cap on what "star" players can make after all and we have more than that available) and Joe very well may trade for the star (someone he sees as a star). And then there's always the possibility he chucks the star idea like he did last time.

As I said, I think there's about a 10% chance that Dumars doesn't make this year his big shopping year. One way or another I think he'll build his team now.

The King · 05-31-2009, 06:30 PM

There's enough talent out there this offseaon and possible trade situations that Joe will make his moves this year. I can't see him hanging onto cap space for another year. It just doesn't seem his style.

Money23 · 05-31-2009, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whoDean

The idea that Lebron had a good team around him is wrong, Mo Williams was the only other starting caliber player on that roster.

It's better than people are now using hindsight to amend, though. They won 66 games and swept two playoff rounds. People just don't want to give Orlando and SVG credit for "figuring out" the Cavs. Not that they're a GREAT team, but they were pretty damn good all year...except against Orlando. Sometimes match-ups are just match-ups, and there's no way around it.

The King · 05-31-2009, 06:39 PM

Ya. I think the Cavs beat 95% of the teams out there, but it came down to matchups and it was terrible for the Cavs. They had no answer for Dwight and one of Lewis/Hedo was ALWAYS going to have an advantage. You throw in the rest of those guys like Skip and Pietrus bombing threes and Lee hitting jumpers and they just ran the Cavs out of the gym.

Awesome series. I hate the Cavs and the state of Ohio in general. What a fucking dump.

The King · 05-31-2009, 06:40 PM

I have never seen so many truck stops and idiots in my life.

Money23 · 05-31-2009, 06:43 PM

Orwellian O. · 05-31-2009, 07:33 PM

I can't see a scenarios where James leaves the Cavs. Why in the world would he want to leave his hometown? He is already a hero. No need to risk getting his image tarnished in the unforgiving NY market.He already has everything a pro could want money (primary concern), women (primary concern; and don't act like Lebron is a nice guy and just spends all his time with his girlfriend), fame(primary concern), winning team (secondary concern), and an organization that is behind him (secondary concern).

He is still very young, he will eventually win a title in Cleveland. David Stern commands it.

jefferson · 05-31-2009, 10:31 PM

If Lebron does leave Cleveland, and for the record I think he should, they can only blame themselves. History will look back on his era there and it will be viewed as them having one of the greatest ever in his prime years, and the best coach you gave him was Mike Brown. They should allow Lebron to pick what coach he wants next season and break the bank for him.

THE PISTONS · 05-31-2009, 10:46 PM

Break the bank? How? There is a salary cap.

bozo the clown · 05-31-2009, 11:58 PM

If Lebron had any brains, he'd see that the most important consideration is to go to the team with the best squad, not worry only about the bucks. He is going to make so much money on endorsements alone that it is ridiculous. If Cleveland taught him anything, its that you can't win it all by yourself. Who knows what he'll do, but if he wants to win titles, he needs to re-think the money issue.

Forsh · 06-01-2009, 01:19 AM

Do you guys even have a clue what Cleveland's cap situation is the year LeBron becomes a FA? As far as I can recall, they'll have as much cap space as any team ... EVEN IF LeBron has already re-signed. They have Mo Williams and bupkus else under contract by then. Do you think Williams, Bosh and LeBron could work in Cleveland?

Forsh · 06-01-2009, 01:21 AM

HoopsHype - NBA Salaries - Cleveland Cavaliers

They would only be at $18 million in salary with Mo Williams (keeper, especially as a 3rd banana), West (keeper), Gibson (bench keeper) and I think Hickson on the roster. That's a TON of cap space.

bozo the clown · 06-01-2009, 01:28 AM

Well, maybe he'll stay there if they can build a new squad. My only point is that if he wants to win, he'll think about what squad to have around him, not just the bucks.

GC_STONES · 06-01-2009, 06:26 PM

I don't know.Maybe Bron and another star would want to start over on a new team rather than sticking with the Cavs and their mediocre front office/coaching.

Money23 · 06-03-2009, 06:00 AM

I wonder why Lebron would want to leave home. Seems like he has it all there in Cleveland. They're going to have to put some guys around him eventually. I mean, as much as people have been using hindsight to complain about this past season's Cavs' team, there's no denying that they made an effort to put a decent team around him. It was a much better team than previous seasons, due to the fact that he now had two All Stars with him (been a couple years for Z, but he is a two time AS).

mn3 · 06-03-2009, 08:48 AM

Mo Williams is not, legitimately, an all-star. He's a good player, but he isn't Pippen to Chicago's Jordan.

hack · 06-03-2009, 08:59 AM

Lebron doesn't NEED to leave home. He COULD, if he chooses too, but as long as Cleveland has the space to bring in another max player, there's no compelling on-court reason. If it were true that only by going to NY could LeBron pair himself with another star, like Bosh, then there's good reason.

THE PISTONS · 06-03-2009, 11:20 AM

Really the hard part of rebuilding is getting the Superstar. Lebron is the star so with cap space then can fit players around him.

The King · 06-03-2009, 03:37 PM

I didn't know the Cavs had so much cap room. LBJ is a fool if he leaves there. He doesn't have to be a "global icon" in another city. He can own Cleveland and with mass media today, he doesn't need to be in a big city. All he has to do is win.

Money23 · 06-04-2009, 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mn3

Mo Williams is not, legitimately, an all-star. He's a good player, but he isn't Pippen to Chicago's Jordan.

No, he's a third guy, sure. And I don't even know if Lebron NEEDS a guy with a "Pippen" type skill set...maybe someone like Michael Redd who can shoot the lights out from a catch and shoot situation, handle and drive effectively, and take pressure off the ball with movement.

But the point is that the Cavs obviously put together a better team than Lebron ever had before. They know they have to continue in that direction if he's going to stay.

Money23 · 06-04-2009, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hack

Lebron doesn't NEED to leave home. He COULD, if he chooses too, but as long as Cleveland has the space to bring in another max player, there's no compelling on-court reason. If it were true that only by going to NY could LeBron pair himself with another star, like Bosh, then there's good reason.

Exactly, and perfectly put.

The Guy · 06-04-2009, 04:25 PM

Lebron with Michael Redd is a scary ass thought.

Money23 · 06-06-2009, 02:37 AM

I think he really only needs ONE guy like that. He's going to have more will to win next season, and Z is a serviceable (though aging) big. A nice slashing shooter who commands defensive respect would be perfect.

Jeff Hause · 06-06-2009, 11:33 AM

As long as Z is covering Howard, they're in trouble. And they need somebody taller like Ariza to cover Lewis and/or Turk, and hit open jumpers when Lebron passes the ball out. They're way too small in the backcourt...

THE PISTONS · 06-06-2009, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Guy

Lebron with Michael Redd is a scary ass thought.

Redd almost ended up in Cleveland a couple years ago but he went back to Milwaukee.

THE PISTONS · 06-06-2009, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Hause

As long as Z is covering Howard, they're in trouble. And they need somebody taller like Ariza to cover Lewis and/or Turk, and hit open jumpers when Lebron passes the ball out. They're way too small in the backcourt...

Agreed. I think that is their biggest problem.

Really Z is like a pylon inside compared to Howard. Z works agianst a lot of centers in the league, but Howard is too explosive.

TJPiston · 06-06-2009, 11:38 AM

Redd to Cleveland would suck.

Redd's profile has dropped off the last couple years because of injuries and Milwaukee's lack of success but put that guy on a contending team and I bet he goes nuts.

THE PISTONS · 06-06-2009, 11:40 AM

We aren't close to good enough to let it bother us. Joe has a lot of rebuilding to do before we are at Clevelands level.I think he realized that at the start of this season and traded Chauncey because of that.

mn3 · 06-06-2009, 01:39 PM

Redd is a major injury guy now. He's a name only, and has lost almost all of his luster.

tin mad dog · 06-06-2009, 01:56 PM

They really need to add something in the frontcourt and maybe a perimeter defender that isn't a midget. I'd gamble on Odom or Charlie V, so long as it really looked like LeBron would stay and then maybe add a Raja Bell type.

bozo the clown · 06-06-2009, 01:57 PM

I think that is the problem for Cleveland. They might lose Varajao and realize their front line is not adequate.

Hobbs · 06-06-2009, 02:06 PM

My guess is Cleveland shops Ben Wallace (and his expiring deal) around to try and improve. They'll probably have to take a bad contract, but they need something more.

The Pavlovic, West, Gibson trio is a bit of a sink hole at the guard slots. A real starter there would be a good idea to go with someone who matches up with Howard better than Z.

Orwellian O. · 06-06-2009, 02:38 PM

Cleveland will improve. There is no reason for Lebron to leave. They are just one trade or crafty FA signing away from a championship.

Jeff Hause · 06-06-2009, 02:39 PM

Yeah. Zach Randolph or Rasheed... Woo-hoo...

TJPiston · 06-06-2009, 03:02 PM

The Cavs losing Varejao and even Joe Smith would be fantastic.

All they'd have upfront is an old Ben and Z.

Jeff Hause · 06-06-2009, 03:10 PM

Ben just said he might retire.

05-31-2009, 09:35 AM	#1
THE PISTONS Bench Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,185 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	IF Lebron goes to NY...how does that affect us? Basically with their loss this year, I could see him leaving if they don't win it all next year either. Really if he has to carry a team in either place, why wouldn't he go to NY where they could potentially add another super star like Wade. So...if Lebron does go to NY, how would that affect our free agency? Does it increase our chances of adding Bosh? What other domino's will fall? Does it actually hurt our chances of adding a star? Should it affect Joe's strategy this year?

05-31-2009, 12:18 PM	#9
tin mad dog Starter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Long Island City, NY Posts: 9,787 : 0 For This Post 1 Total	Yeah, I think Gooden and Hughes gave them more. They may not have gone after Mo, though. All 3 players in the deal have kind of fallen off a bit. __________________ 2011- Oh Bismack, where art thou? Last edited by tin mad dog; 05-31-2009 at 12:20 PM.

06-06-2009, 01:56 PM	#44
tin mad dog Starter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Long Island City, NY Posts: 9,787 : 0 For This Post 1 Total	They really need to add something in the frontcourt and maybe a perimeter defender that isn't a midget. I'd gamble on Odom or Charlie V, so long as it really looked like LeBron would stay and then maybe add a Raja Bell type. __________________ 2011- Oh Bismack, where art thou?

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05-31-2009, 09:38 AM	#2
Hobbs Sixth Man Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 3,006 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	I don't think we're going to be shopping for free agents that year. I know it seems a popular theory around here that we'll roll the money into next offseason, but I put that at about a 10% chance. Dumars will make his move now.

05-31-2009, 09:41 AM	#3
hack Starter Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 11,065 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	I don't know that to be true, unless he's made up his mind on Boozer or Millsap. Even then, that's not really blowing our load. I could very well see Joe taking a pass for now. That said, if LeBron goes to New York, we're dead. If Bosh or Amare don't end up there with him, the next great interior FA will, and then it's just a matter of using filling in the blanks and the MLE wisely.

05-31-2009, 09:44 AM	#4
Hobbs Sixth Man Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 3,006 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	That's limiting our options entirely to FA. Dumars isn't doing that. Even if he passes on the Utah duo, he can make moves to improve us (not to mention other free agents like David Lee he may or may not want).

05-31-2009, 09:49 AM	#5
THE PISTONS Bench Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,185 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	Even if we spend most of the money, we could still do an S&T assumiung what we sign is considered a treadeable asset I suppose. Do you think that Lebron leaving will make more players change teams or less? Cleveland would have a pretty big void. I could see them going after a Yao Ming.

05-31-2009, 09:50 AM	#6
THE PISTONS Bench Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,185 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	To expand on the Hacks point too about the MLE...IF Lebron is in NY, I could see really good players coming there for the MLE to win a title. Plus they would have the other NY perks like endorsements.

05-31-2009, 11:25 AM	#8
THE PISTONS Bench Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,185 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	NY does have talent on its roster. It is just unfocused talent though. Adding Ben Wallace actually probably really hurt Cleveland.

05-31-2009, 03:09 PM	#10
Nick Water Boy Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 283 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	If NYK's are under the cap then they won't have the midlevel and you know Cleveland isn't going to sign and trade LeBron unless they're gettin 20 1st round picks back. Mike Brown is a horrible coach. LeBron had a pretty good team around him this year, they just didn't get it done. If he goes to the Knicks it will take them a few years to get quality talent around him to win it, by that point who knows what the league will look like and what condition he'll be in.

05-31-2009, 03:12 PM	#11
Diddy Water Boy Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 124 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	By that time, Stuckey will be twice as good as Lebron and averaging 43 points a game. He will also be a pass-first pg.

05-31-2009, 03:42 PM	#12
Nick Water Boy Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 283 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	I don't visit the same website you do, so you might be right.

05-31-2009, 03:53 PM	#13
whoDean Sixth Man Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 4,955 : 0 For This Post 1 Total	The idea that Lebron had a good team around him is wrong, Mo Williams was the only other starting caliber player on that roster.

05-31-2009, 04:02 PM	#14
hack Starter Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 11,065 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	I don't think NYC does now, but assuming LeBron brings a bosh-type talent with him, they'll be over the cap in plenty time to start raking in the MLE types. Hobbs, agreed on trades, but it's been noted that adding the complementary types first wastes the cap space. Joe may want to get the star first, and then build around him, no? If no star this offseason, he could wait. I'm assuming that Joe sees that a star's what's needed.

05-31-2009, 04:58 PM	#15
Hobbs Sixth Man Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 3,006 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	I don't agree with the idea that complimentary types necessarily waste cap space (there is a cap on what "star" players can make after all and we have more than that available) and Joe very well may trade for the star (someone he sees as a star). And then there's always the possibility he chucks the star idea like he did last time. As I said, I think there's about a 10% chance that Dumars doesn't make this year his big shopping year. One way or another I think he'll build his team now.

05-31-2009, 06:30 PM	#16
The King Sixth Man Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 2,900 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	There's enough talent out there this offseaon and possible trade situations that Joe will make his moves this year. I can't see him hanging onto cap space for another year. It just doesn't seem his style.

05-31-2009, 06:39 PM	#18
The King Sixth Man Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 2,900 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	Ya. I think the Cavs beat 95% of the teams out there, but it came down to matchups and it was terrible for the Cavs. They had no answer for Dwight and one of Lewis/Hedo was ALWAYS going to have an advantage. You throw in the rest of those guys like Skip and Pietrus bombing threes and Lee hitting jumpers and they just ran the Cavs out of the gym. Awesome series. I hate the Cavs and the state of Ohio in general. What a fucking dump.

05-31-2009, 06:40 PM	#19
The King Sixth Man Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 2,900 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	I have never seen so many truck stops and idiots in my life.

05-31-2009, 06:43 PM	#20
Money23 Sixth Man Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: F-f-f-f-Flintown Posts: 3,941 : 0 For This Post 0 Total

05-31-2009, 07:33 PM	#21
Orwellian O. Bench Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,819 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	I can't see a scenarios where James leaves the Cavs. Why in the world would he want to leave his hometown? He is already a hero. No need to risk getting his image tarnished in the unforgiving NY market.He already has everything a pro could want money (primary concern), women (primary concern; and don't act like Lebron is a nice guy and just spends all his time with his girlfriend), fame(primary concern), winning team (secondary concern), and an organization that is behind him (secondary concern). He is still very young, he will eventually win a title in Cleveland. David Stern commands it.

05-31-2009, 10:31 PM	#22
jefferson Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 41 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	If Lebron does leave Cleveland, and for the record I think he should, they can only blame themselves. History will look back on his era there and it will be viewed as them having one of the greatest ever in his prime years, and the best coach you gave him was Mike Brown. They should allow Lebron to pick what coach he wants next season and break the bank for him.

05-31-2009, 10:46 PM	#23
THE PISTONS Bench Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,185 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	Break the bank? How? There is a salary cap.

05-31-2009, 11:58 PM	#24
bozo the clown Bench Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 2,145 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	If Lebron had any brains, he'd see that the most important consideration is to go to the team with the best squad, not worry only about the bucks. He is going to make so much money on endorsements alone that it is ridiculous. If Cleveland taught him anything, its that you can't win it all by yourself. Who knows what he'll do, but if he wants to win titles, he needs to re-think the money issue.

06-01-2009, 01:19 AM	#25
Forsh Bench Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,311 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	Do you guys even have a clue what Cleveland's cap situation is the year LeBron becomes a FA? As far as I can recall, they'll have as much cap space as any team ... EVEN IF LeBron has already re-signed. They have Mo Williams and bupkus else under contract by then. Do you think Williams, Bosh and LeBron could work in Cleveland?

06-01-2009, 01:21 AM	#26
Forsh Bench Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,311 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	HoopsHype - NBA Salaries - Cleveland Cavaliers They would only be at $18 million in salary with Mo Williams (keeper, especially as a 3rd banana), West (keeper), Gibson (bench keeper) and I think Hickson on the roster. That's a TON of cap space.

06-01-2009, 01:28 AM	#27
bozo the clown Bench Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 2,145 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	Well, maybe he'll stay there if they can build a new squad. My only point is that if he wants to win, he'll think about what squad to have around him, not just the bucks.

06-01-2009, 06:26 PM	#28
GC_STONES Sixth Man Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 2,788 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	I don't know.Maybe Bron and another star would want to start over on a new team rather than sticking with the Cavs and their mediocre front office/coaching.

06-03-2009, 06:00 AM	#29
Money23 Sixth Man Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: F-f-f-f-Flintown Posts: 3,941 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	I wonder why Lebron would want to leave home. Seems like he has it all there in Cleveland. They're going to have to put some guys around him eventually. I mean, as much as people have been using hindsight to complain about this past season's Cavs' team, there's no denying that they made an effort to put a decent team around him. It was a much better team than previous seasons, due to the fact that he now had two All Stars with him (been a couple years for Z, but he is a two time AS).

06-03-2009, 08:48 AM	#30
mn3 Sixth Man Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5,502 : 0 For This Post 3 Total	Mo Williams is not, legitimately, an all-star. He's a good player, but he isn't Pippen to Chicago's Jordan.

06-03-2009, 08:59 AM	#31
hack Starter Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 11,065 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	Lebron doesn't NEED to leave home. He COULD, if he chooses too, but as long as Cleveland has the space to bring in another max player, there's no compelling on-court reason. If it were true that only by going to NY could LeBron pair himself with another star, like Bosh, then there's good reason.

06-03-2009, 11:20 AM	#32
THE PISTONS Bench Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,185 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	Really the hard part of rebuilding is getting the Superstar. Lebron is the star so with cap space then can fit players around him.

06-03-2009, 03:37 PM	#33
The King Sixth Man Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 2,900 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	I didn't know the Cavs had so much cap room. LBJ is a fool if he leaves there. He doesn't have to be a "global icon" in another city. He can own Cleveland and with mass media today, he doesn't need to be in a big city. All he has to do is win.

06-04-2009, 04:25 PM	#36
The Guy Water Boy Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 122 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	Lebron with Michael Redd is a scary ass thought.