How is Orlando doing this?

rpmfla · 06-01-2009, 10:35 AM

I thought that, outside of Howard, the Magic had little going for them. Their coach was criticized in the media and at one point in the season it was said that he was probably out of there after the season. Their starting PG was injured and out for the year. So how are they doing this?

It seems that quite often when they shoot the ball (especially from long range) it goes in the basket.

As the playoffs began, I told a friend of mine who is a Magic fan, "if the Magic keep shooting like they have from long range they can beat anyone". They have and they did. They didn't lead the league in 3pt% but for how big a portion of their offense the 3 is they were great.

On the other end, they were tops in the league at limiting their opponents to just one shot.

So often it just comes down to the simple things. Shoot the ball well and rebound the other guy's misses. I predict that if they continue to shoot as well as they have they will beat the Lakers. As we all know, it is not always the best team that wins...it is the hottest.

This should be an interesting series. I don't really care who wins as I'm not a fan of either team, but I normally pull for anyone playing the Lakers.

El Axe · 06-01-2009, 10:41 AM

This past series makes Phil Jackson's quote look pretty good -- that he'd take Howard over any other player in the NBA to start a team. I thought the quote was absurd when I first read it, now I'm rethinking it a bit.

Billl · 06-01-2009, 10:48 AM

It isn't like orlando is just riding a hot hand to the finals.

They have the best defensive player on the planet and he is dominating the paint.

Offensively, yes, they have been knocking shots down - but they have been open shots. They really only run a couple of plays, but they are resulting in easy baskets. Their early game play is the flash post to howard. If the other team tries to cut it off, Howard spins and they just toss it up to him. If the defender plays behind, howard gets the low catch. From their, he either gets a 1-on-1 attempt or gets a jumpshot for an open teammate. The other play is the 3/4 pick and roll. They either get a switch and a mismatch OR give up an open J behind the screen OR turk heading to the basket OR the defense sucked in to cover the drive and an open jumper on the wing.

So far, they haven't faced anyone who can guard both of those plays with any consistency. They cavs just didn't have the bodies to do it. The Celtics probably did until KG went down.

mn3 · 06-01-2009, 11:12 AM

Howard seems to have taken a major step forward as a player during the playoffs - especially against Cleveland. That he did that on the biggest stage is really impressive. That, more than anything, is why Orlando suddenly looks legit as a championship contender.

rpmfla · 06-01-2009, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billl

So far, they haven't faced anyone who can guard both of those plays with any consistency. They cavs just didn't have the bodies to do it. The Celtics probably did until KG went down.

Well, how do you see the finals playing out? Do you think the Lakers can defend them?

fredsue · 06-01-2009, 11:54 AM

The lakers do have some flexibility with bynum/gasol at center and then Odom at PF they can mtch up better. Ariza can handle Turkey ok. I think lakersmatchup better defensively because of Odom/ariza/walton playing the 3/4 spot to match up with lewis/turkey leg....allowing for Kobe to be more free....

THE PISTONS · 06-01-2009, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mn3

Howard seems to have taken a major step forward as a player during the playoffs - especially against Cleveland. That he did that on the biggest stage is really impressive. That, more than anything, is why Orlando suddenly looks legit as a championship contender.

Perhaps he was ALWAYS this dominant.

They did have the most all-stars in the East.

TJPiston · 06-01-2009, 12:44 PM

I think they clicked at the right time.

I am surprised at the mental toughness they've diaplayed. They've lost many close games/buzzer beaters and have bounced back strong each time.

detroitsportsfan · 06-01-2009, 12:47 PM

Orlando is doing it with "Magic."

Billl · 06-01-2009, 12:50 PM

I think LA has the talent at the 3/4 and 5 to defend Orlando in their favorite plays. However, I'm not sure they are going to play it that way. I think they are going to keep the same starting lineup and hope that Gasol scores more than he gives up in the mismatch. I have no idea whether that is going to work or not. It is dangerous to let Orlando's shooters get open looks early because that just builds confidence. Down the stretch though, I suspect you will see a lot of Odum and Arizo at the 3/4 to defend that pick and roll and Phil will just foul Howard on deep post catches and make him shoot free throws.

RugbyPike#11 · 06-01-2009, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mn3

Howard seems to have taken a major step forward as a player during the playoffs - especially against Cleveland. That he did that on the biggest stage is really impressive. That, more than anything, is why Orlando suddenly looks legit as a championship contender.

Howard's numbers have been only a little better than his regular season numbers. He hasn't taken a major leap in the playoffs because he was already a big-time player despite your oft-stated lukewarm opinion. His playoff dominance is only a step forward in your eyes because your previous opinion of him was far away from reality.

mn3 · 06-01-2009, 02:43 PM

He's almost never been a go-to player down the stretch of games until the last series. He rose up and elevated his game in that respect (and at that time). I think it's pretty obvious that he took a step forward in the last couple of weeks.

Jeff Hause · 06-01-2009, 02:46 PM

I think it's pretty obvious that he's been the best center in basketball for the last couple of years -- and at his age, he's gonna be the best for a looooooong time.

mn3 · 06-01-2009, 02:49 PM

I agree. But that wasn't saying much this year. Besides, Yao was the best center.

Jeff Hause · 06-01-2009, 02:49 PM

Based on what?

Jeff Hause · 06-01-2009, 02:51 PM

Based on who was first team All-NBA?
Based on who was DPOY?

mn3 · 06-01-2009, 02:53 PM

Based on that I thought Yao was great this year. Just my opinion.

Jeff Hause · 06-01-2009, 02:54 PM

Based on who led the league in offensive rebounds?
Based on who led the league in total rebounds?
Based on who led the league in blocks?
Based on who took his team further in the playoffs?

Jeff Hause · 06-01-2009, 02:54 PM

Your opinion was until recently that Samb had more upside.

mn3 · 06-01-2009, 02:55 PM

If Yao doesn't break his foot, they might have beaten LA.

Jeff Hause · 06-01-2009, 02:55 PM

You're a loon.

mn3 · 06-01-2009, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Hause

Your opinion was until recently that Samb had more upside.

It's almost noon Pacific Standard Time. Isn't it a little early for you to be picking a silly fight?

hack · 06-01-2009, 02:57 PM

Howard has the potential to physically dominate the interior, but Yao and Darko are going to have some legendary battles in years to come.

hack · 06-01-2009, 02:58 PM

If Yao doesn't break his foot, they might have beaten LA.

That's less crazy than most of what Matt says.

Jeff Hause · 06-01-2009, 03:00 PM

If Samb hasn't overtaken Darko by then...

Quote:

Originally Posted by mn3

It's almost noon Pacific Standard Time. Isn't it a little early for you to be picking a silly fight?

You're claiming a guy with a broken foot had a better year than the 1st Team All-NBA, DPOY center and I'm picking the fight?

Joe_Loco · 06-01-2009, 09:39 PM

LA has versatile frontcourt defenders who won't give up the easy perimeter looks allowed by Cleveland's mastodons. I figure LA in 6, but expect Howard to make Laker fans spend a long summer wondering about Andrew Bynum.

Medz · 06-02-2009, 01:01 AM

"Dwight Howard is a mediocre offensive player" is to 2009 as "Lebron - he's just not one of those players" was to 2007.

RugbyPike#11 · 06-02-2009, 07:40 AM

Ha, and he's already trying to rationalize by saying that Howard has taken a "major leap forward" in the playoffs. His 21.7 PPG in the playoffs is a huge step up from his regular season average of 20.6 and career average of 17.3.

mn3 · 06-02-2009, 10:16 AM

Ha, yourself. When can you ever remember Howard being a go-to guy in the 4th quarter before the last series? He's traditionally been a guy the entire team ignores at key moments in the game. So against great competition he emerges as the guy making plays and demanding the ball and scoring when he gets the chances and knocking down his free throws. If you can't get this as a big step forward in his career, then you aren't watching all that closely. On the biggest stage of his life, he consistently played better than he has down the stretch of games.

Jeff Hause · 06-02-2009, 10:26 AM

He's not a closer, like the guy who gets hurt every year and is not in the NBA Finals -- who finished behind him in points, rebounds, blocks, All-NBA voting, DPOY voting...

Do you ever get tired of putting yourself in this position, Newman...?

Jeff Hause · 06-02-2009, 10:46 AM

Tell you what... Why don't you put the computer away, maybe run a little on the treadmill, relax and think about WHY Orlando gets away with so many open 3-point shots and second chance shots before Diddy shows up starts berating you again...?

Money23 · 06-02-2009, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mn3

I agree. But that wasn't saying much this year. Besides, Yao was the best center.

Not anymore. The guy that closed out a 66 win team with 40 and 14 now holds that title. And BTW, playing your best on the biggest stage is the best time to showcase your growth as a player.

Money23 · 06-02-2009, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hack

If Yao doesn't break his foot, they might have beaten LA.

That's less crazy than most of what Matt says.

Yep. I think I actually agree with it.

mn3 · 06-02-2009, 05:15 PM

Yao vs. Howard this year was a very fair debate. Has Howard passed him up now? That could very well be. Still, Yao impressed the hell out of me this year.

Money23 · 06-02-2009, 05:19 PM

I don't think it's even a debate at the moment. Howard is the best. Plus, as good as Yao is, he's just so injury prone. You gotta feel for him.

mn3 · 06-02-2009, 05:26 PM

I agree that with the injuries, you have to take Howard. But I don't think it's fair to Yao to denigrate how outstanding he has become.

hack · 06-02-2009, 05:47 PM

I haven't heard you talk about Yao all year. Suddenly now....

mn3 · 06-02-2009, 06:14 PM

Do you keep track of everything I say that closely? I thought I've been posting about how Yao was a much better player than I thought he'd become, and how he looked a lot faster on his feet than in his earlier years in the league. I know I've been thinking along those lines, and this is about the only place I discuss the NBA.

Jeff Hause · 06-02-2009, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mn3

Do you keep track of everything I say that closely?

are you kidding? Its the favorite pastime of every wise-ass on this board...

bozo the clown · 06-02-2009, 08:11 PM

LOL

Can't argue with that.

The King · 06-02-2009, 08:58 PM

Dwight's major flaw is lack of ability with back to the basket. He fumbles simple entry passes and has very weak dribbling ability. It's a minor knock, but I agree he hurts you crunch time because he cannot finish away from the basket and is a poor FT shooter. Looks for Phil to enable "Hack a Dwight" if games get down to crunch time.

The King · 06-02-2009, 09:00 PM

Once he has position it is over, but you must force Dwight away from the basket to have any sort of success and I think the Lakers "big three" upfront can do exactly that.

Lakers in 6.

mn3 · 06-02-2009, 09:12 PM

Bynum is the only guy on the Lakers who has the physical strength and size to defend Howard. But Bynum is a shell of the guy (with his knee injury) he was before his injury, and I don't know if he can do it. Howard could be a massive problem for the Lakers. If they can't cover him one on one, then Orlando's shooters will have the room they need to really hurt LA.

Then again, Orlando has exactly 1 guy, PIetrus, that can sort of match up (kind of, not really) against Kobe.

This really is a hard series to call, but I suspect the friggin Lakers are going to win it.

The King · 06-02-2009, 09:15 PM

That dislocated kneecap is a bitch. You never get back to normal. I had the same injury multiple times. You can get to about 85%, but the explosion just never comes back.

Jeff Hause · 06-02-2009, 09:49 PM

It's amazing how Dwight Howard has come out of nowhere to be so good in the last week...

mn3 · 06-02-2009, 09:56 PM

King, did you have physical therapy? I wonder if pro athletes like Bynum can make more of a recovery given the world class treatment and training they get access to.

Diddy · 06-02-2009, 09:59 PM

Are you saying that King isn't a world class athlete? If he were on the Pistons you would be comparing him to Deron Williams!

The King · 06-02-2009, 10:03 PM

My 2 inch patch of leg hair slightly above the right quad is world class, other than that, I'm a semi-decent dude who would whup Jackie Moon's ass.

Money23 · 06-03-2009, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The King

Dwight's major flaw is lack of ability with back to the basket. He fumbles simple entry passes and has very weak dribbling ability. It's a minor knock, but I agree he hurts you crunch time because he cannot finish away from the basket and is a poor FT shooter. Looks for Phil to enable "Hack a Dwight" if games get down to crunch time.

He didn't hurt Orlando in crunch time in the ECF. Dude was amazing in OT, and he hit 12/16 FTs in game 6.

hack · 06-03-2009, 03:15 AM

Like me, you say six things over and over again. It's not hard to keep track.

06-01-2009, 02:46 PM	#13
Jeff Hause Sixth Man Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5,712 : 0 For This Post 1 Total	I think it's pretty obvious that he's been the best center in basketball for the last couple of years -- and at his age, he's gonna be the best for a looooooong time. Last edited by Jeff Hause; 06-01-2009 at 02:49 PM.

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06-01-2009, 10:35 AM	#1
rpmfla Water Boy Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 384 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	How is Orlando doing this? I thought that, outside of Howard, the Magic had little going for them. Their coach was criticized in the media and at one point in the season it was said that he was probably out of there after the season. Their starting PG was injured and out for the year. So how are they doing this? It seems that quite often when they shoot the ball (especially from long range) it goes in the basket. As the playoffs began, I told a friend of mine who is a Magic fan, "if the Magic keep shooting like they have from long range they can beat anyone". They have and they did. They didn't lead the league in 3pt% but for how big a portion of their offense the 3 is they were great. On the other end, they were tops in the league at limiting their opponents to just one shot. So often it just comes down to the simple things. Shoot the ball well and rebound the other guy's misses. I predict that if they continue to shoot as well as they have they will beat the Lakers. As we all know, it is not always the best team that wins...it is the hottest. This should be an interesting series. I don't really care who wins as I'm not a fan of either team, but I normally pull for anyone playing the Lakers.

06-01-2009, 10:41 AM	#2
El Axe Water Boy Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 698 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	This past series makes Phil Jackson's quote look pretty good -- that he'd take Howard over any other player in the NBA to start a team. I thought the quote was absurd when I first read it, now I'm rethinking it a bit.

06-01-2009, 10:48 AM	#3
Billl Bench Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 2,382 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	It isn't like orlando is just riding a hot hand to the finals. They have the best defensive player on the planet and he is dominating the paint. Offensively, yes, they have been knocking shots down - but they have been open shots. They really only run a couple of plays, but they are resulting in easy baskets. Their early game play is the flash post to howard. If the other team tries to cut it off, Howard spins and they just toss it up to him. If the defender plays behind, howard gets the low catch. From their, he either gets a 1-on-1 attempt or gets a jumpshot for an open teammate. The other play is the 3/4 pick and roll. They either get a switch and a mismatch OR give up an open J behind the screen OR turk heading to the basket OR the defense sucked in to cover the drive and an open jumper on the wing. So far, they haven't faced anyone who can guard both of those plays with any consistency. They cavs just didn't have the bodies to do it. The Celtics probably did until KG went down.

06-01-2009, 11:12 AM	#4
mn3 Sixth Man Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5,502 : 0 For This Post 3 Total	Howard seems to have taken a major step forward as a player during the playoffs - especially against Cleveland. That he did that on the biggest stage is really impressive. That, more than anything, is why Orlando suddenly looks legit as a championship contender.

06-01-2009, 11:54 AM	#6
fredsue Bench Player Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,487 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	The lakers do have some flexibility with bynum/gasol at center and then Odom at PF they can mtch up better. Ariza can handle Turkey ok. I think lakersmatchup better defensively because of Odom/ariza/walton playing the 3/4 spot to match up with lewis/turkey leg....allowing for Kobe to be more free....

06-01-2009, 12:44 PM	#8
TJPiston Bench Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,636 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	I think they clicked at the right time. I am surprised at the mental toughness they've diaplayed. They've lost many close games/buzzer beaters and have bounced back strong each time.

06-01-2009, 12:47 PM	#9
detroitsportsfan Bench Player Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 1,511 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	Orlando is doing it with "Magic."

06-01-2009, 12:50 PM	#10
Billl Bench Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 2,382 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	I think LA has the talent at the 3/4 and 5 to defend Orlando in their favorite plays. However, I'm not sure they are going to play it that way. I think they are going to keep the same starting lineup and hope that Gasol scores more than he gives up in the mismatch. I have no idea whether that is going to work or not. It is dangerous to let Orlando's shooters get open looks early because that just builds confidence. Down the stretch though, I suspect you will see a lot of Odum and Arizo at the 3/4 to defend that pick and roll and Phil will just foul Howard on deep post catches and make him shoot free throws.

06-01-2009, 02:43 PM	#12
mn3 Sixth Man Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5,502 : 0 For This Post 3 Total	He's almost never been a go-to player down the stretch of games until the last series. He rose up and elevated his game in that respect (and at that time). I think it's pretty obvious that he took a step forward in the last couple of weeks.

06-01-2009, 02:49 PM	#14
mn3 Sixth Man Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5,502 : 0 For This Post 3 Total	I agree. But that wasn't saying much this year. Besides, Yao was the best center.

06-01-2009, 02:51 PM	#16
Jeff Hause Sixth Man Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5,712 : 0 For This Post 1 Total	Based on who was first team All-NBA? Based on who was DPOY?

06-01-2009, 02:53 PM	#17
mn3 Sixth Man Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5,502 : 0 For This Post 3 Total	Based on that I thought Yao was great this year. Just my opinion.

06-01-2009, 02:54 PM	#18
Jeff Hause Sixth Man Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5,712 : 0 For This Post 1 Total	Based on who led the league in offensive rebounds? Based on who led the league in total rebounds? Based on who led the league in blocks? Based on who took his team further in the playoffs?

06-01-2009, 02:55 PM	#20
mn3 Sixth Man Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5,502 : 0 For This Post 3 Total	If Yao doesn't break his foot, they might have beaten LA.

06-01-2009, 02:57 PM	#23
hack Starter Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 11,065 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	Howard has the potential to physically dominate the interior, but Yao and Darko are going to have some legendary battles in years to come.

06-01-2009, 02:58 PM	#24
hack Starter Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 11,065 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	If Yao doesn't break his foot, they might have beaten LA. That's less crazy than most of what Matt says.

06-01-2009, 09:39 PM	#26
Joe_Loco Water Boy Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Nashua, NH Posts: 363 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	LA has versatile frontcourt defenders who won't give up the easy perimeter looks allowed by Cleveland's mastodons. I figure LA in 6, but expect Howard to make Laker fans spend a long summer wondering about Andrew Bynum.

06-02-2009, 01:01 AM	#27
Medz Sixth Man Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 3,211 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	"Dwight Howard is a mediocre offensive player" is to 2009 as "Lebron - he's just not one of those players" was to 2007.

06-02-2009, 07:40 AM	#28
RugbyPike#11 Bench Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 1,153 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	Ha, and he's already trying to rationalize by saying that Howard has taken a "major leap forward" in the playoffs. His 21.7 PPG in the playoffs is a huge step up from his regular season average of 20.6 and career average of 17.3.

06-02-2009, 10:16 AM	#29
mn3 Sixth Man Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5,502 : 0 For This Post 3 Total	Ha, yourself. When can you ever remember Howard being a go-to guy in the 4th quarter before the last series? He's traditionally been a guy the entire team ignores at key moments in the game. So against great competition he emerges as the guy making plays and demanding the ball and scoring when he gets the chances and knocking down his free throws. If you can't get this as a big step forward in his career, then you aren't watching all that closely. On the biggest stage of his life, he consistently played better than he has down the stretch of games.

06-02-2009, 10:26 AM	#30
Jeff Hause Sixth Man Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5,712 : 0 For This Post 1 Total	He's not a closer, like the guy who gets hurt every year and is not in the NBA Finals -- who finished behind him in points, rebounds, blocks, All-NBA voting, DPOY voting... Do you ever get tired of putting yourself in this position, Newman...?

06-02-2009, 10:46 AM	#31
Jeff Hause Sixth Man Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5,712 : 0 For This Post 1 Total	Tell you what... Why don't you put the computer away, maybe run a little on the treadmill, relax and think about WHY Orlando gets away with so many open 3-point shots and second chance shots before Diddy shows up starts berating you again...?

06-02-2009, 05:15 PM	#34
mn3 Sixth Man Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5,502 : 0 For This Post 3 Total	Yao vs. Howard this year was a very fair debate. Has Howard passed him up now? That could very well be. Still, Yao impressed the hell out of me this year.

06-02-2009, 05:19 PM	#35
Money23 Sixth Man Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: F-f-f-f-Flintown Posts: 3,941 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	I don't think it's even a debate at the moment. Howard is the best. Plus, as good as Yao is, he's just so injury prone. You gotta feel for him.

06-02-2009, 05:26 PM	#36
mn3 Sixth Man Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5,502 : 0 For This Post 3 Total	I agree that with the injuries, you have to take Howard. But I don't think it's fair to Yao to denigrate how outstanding he has become.

06-02-2009, 05:47 PM	#37
hack Starter Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 11,065 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	I haven't heard you talk about Yao all year. Suddenly now....

06-02-2009, 06:14 PM	#38
mn3 Sixth Man Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5,502 : 0 For This Post 3 Total	Do you keep track of everything I say that closely? I thought I've been posting about how Yao was a much better player than I thought he'd become, and how he looked a lot faster on his feet than in his earlier years in the league. I know I've been thinking along those lines, and this is about the only place I discuss the NBA.

06-02-2009, 08:11 PM	#40
bozo the clown Bench Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 2,145 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	LOL Can't argue with that.

06-02-2009, 08:58 PM	#41
The King Sixth Man Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 2,900 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	Dwight's major flaw is lack of ability with back to the basket. He fumbles simple entry passes and has very weak dribbling ability. It's a minor knock, but I agree he hurts you crunch time because he cannot finish away from the basket and is a poor FT shooter. Looks for Phil to enable "Hack a Dwight" if games get down to crunch time.

06-02-2009, 09:00 PM	#42
The King Sixth Man Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 2,900 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	Once he has position it is over, but you must force Dwight away from the basket to have any sort of success and I think the Lakers "big three" upfront can do exactly that. Lakers in 6.