[Mel Kiper Jr]

Dumars really made GREAT additions in Ben Wallace and Billups in free agency. Most GM's don't do things that good in 10 years. Dumars did it all within a couple year span. He also dumped bad contracts like Loy Vaught and Buechler.

We need THAT Dumars back...

[B.I.G.]

I think the it ain't rough it ain't right came from RIP if i'm not mistaken. I do hope he gets another ring

[Stefan S]

worse than we were hoping for:

"Los Angeles Clippers guard Chauncey Billups suffered a torn left Achilles tendon Monday night and will miss the remainder of the season, the team announced Tuesday."

Los Angeles Clippers' Chauncey Billups out for season with torn Achilles - ESPN Los Angeles

[The King]

Billups was the flip-the-switch leader. I liked his time here and he was a good player, but I didn't mind seeing him go. He wasn't the type of leader we needed. He didn't hold guys accountable.

[hack]

``Didn't hold guys accountable'' -- yeah, well put.

Sad for Chauncey today, though. That's really a shame.

[papalawrence]

There is no guarantee a man his age can come back to NBA quickness after that surgery. It killed Zeke and he was a few years younger. I know medicine has advanced -- but still -- not sure about his future.

And I might agree that Chauncey didn't hold guys accountable, but the team sure went south fast after he left. That says something. He is an all-time great Piston imho.

[Stefan S]

Originally Posted by hack

``Didn't hold guys accountable'' -- yeah, well put.

Sad for Chauncey today, though. That's really a shame.

I am not convinced about it.
a) he has an injury in each of the crucial series;
b) that Boston team was freakin' great and on the mission;
ditto, Miami with Shaq and Wade, especially after Ben was allienated;
c) we had a general drop of talent when Ben left for Chicago.
Really, Ben was the sole of the team Chauncey was its brain.
Also, Flip was a definite step back from the Back Stabber.

Chauncey did his best, in my opinion, given the conditions.
He is just not a leader in Zeke's sense, or in MJ or Kobe sense.
A different kind of person and a different kind of leader and player.

To put things simply, Joe blew it.
We needed to draft Wade and we are dynasty.

[hack]

The basketball gods punished the 2005 Pistons for stepping on and off the gas throughout the playoffs. Look/see: Chauncey got banished and now is sidelined from a contender. Ben took his fool's gold contract and was never the same. Sheed showed up lame in his last chance. Tayshaun is fated to be the rare same-team-from-rookie-to-retirement ring winner who won't be appreciated by the team's fans for it. Rip -- is it really Rip that has the only chance at post-Pistons happiness? That's not right. He deserves it less than any other but Sheed. He won't get it, I'm sure. The basketball gods have punished them for aint rough/aint right.

[Orwellian O.]

Originally Posted by Stefan S

I am not convinced about it.
a) he has an injury in each of the crucial series;
b) that Boston team was freakin' great and on the mission;
ditto, Miami with Shaq and Wade, especially after Ben was allienated;
c) we had a general drop of talent when Ben left for Chicago.
Really, Ben was the sole of the team Chauncey was its brain.
Also, Flip was a definite step back from the Back Stabber.

Chauncey did his best, in my opinion, given the conditions.
He is just not a leader in Zeke's sense, or in MJ or Kobe sense.
A different kind of person and a different kind of leader and player.

To put things simply, Joe blew it.
We needed to draft Wade and we are dynasty.

To truth of the matter is, where the hell would have Wade played at the point in the team's history. He might have been a bust if he had been drafted by the Pistons.

[whoDean]

Originally Posted by hack

The basketball gods punished the 2005 Pistons

More like that Pistons team was truly more than just the sum of the individual players.

[Stefan S]

Originally Posted by Orwellian O.

To truth of the matter is, where the hell would have Wade played at the point in the team's history. He might have been a bust if he had been drafted by the Pistons.

Wade is a transcendent player.
To put things in perspective, he is still the alpha dog in Miami
despite of the fact that the Big Soft Pussy has more talent.

He would have won the job from Rip. So, Rip would have to come off the bench
or would have been traded (certainly would not have ben renewed to his outrageously blotted contract).

[Orwellian O.]

Originally Posted by Stefan S

Wade is a transcendent player.
To put things in perspective, he is still the alpha dog in Miami
despite of the fact that the Big Soft Pussy has more talent.

He would have won the job from Rip. So, Rip would have to come off the bench
or would have been traded (certainly would not have ben renewed to his outrageously blotted contract).

LOL @ the BSP reference...

I don't disagree. That would have been a great move. But at the time of the draft, that move would have made zero sense. Now, if this conversation were about Bosh...

[Stefan S]

It could go into "other players" thread, but this involves Zeke.

BTW, I disagree with Thomas view about resting Rose. An interesting thing is that he always got lots of rest from Chuck becasue no one got much more than 30 minutes anyway (and we plaeyd long bench).

Also, lets not forget the last year Champs -- they won because, when it really counted, they had more energy than the Heat.

Updated: February 8, 2012, 5:39 PM ET
Isiah Thomas counseled Derrick Rose
By Melissa Isaacson
ESPNChicago.com

Among those whom Derrick Rose sought advice and solace from in the days after the Chicago Bulls were eliminated by the Miami Heat in the Eastern Conference finals last May was the last point guard to lead his team in scoring while winning an NBA title.

“ He was pretty down. He asked me 'How did you do it? How did you win back-to-back championships at this size?'
” -- Isiah Thomas
on Derrick Rose's call after last season

Isiah Thomas said he met Rose last year after a game in Detroit and that Rose contacted him after the Bulls' season had ended.

"He was pretty down," Thomas told ESPNChicago.com by phone on Wednesday. "He asked me 'How did you do it? How did you win back-to-back championships at this size?' And my response to him was that once you understand your opponent and know your opponent better than you know yourself, you'll win."

Not many can know what Rose is going through as he endures the physical pain and rigors of the NBA season. He's been battling turf toe and back spasms that knocked him out of Monday's game in New Jersey. Even fewer can speak to the unique challenge the Bulls' 6-3 star faces as a relatively small man in a big man's game.

But while some question the price Rose is paying in pursuit of an NBA title, Thomas, a 6-1 Hall of Famer and two-time NBA champion with the Detroit Pistons, said he watches from his home in South Florida and applauds it.

"He's very courageous," Thomas said of his fellow Chicago native. "You've got to be courageous and you've got to make sacrifices in terms of your body to have success as a small man in the NBA and to win championships.

"And I emphasize win championships, because you can pile up statistics and great numbers playing a non-aggressive style and have a great career. But if you want to win championships, you have to pay the price and Derrick is definitely paying the price."

Thomas, a former NBA coach and executive and currently the head coach at Florida International University, said he admires Tom Thibodeau's coaching style and decision to often play Rose heavy minutes. Some have criticized Thibodeau for not resting Rose, especially late in blowouts.

"I love (Thibodeau)," Thomas said. "Chicago doesn't realize how lucky they are to have Thibodeau and Rose come together at this point in time in their careers, because you've got two people basically saying, 'Screw everybody else, we're trying to win a championship now.'"

Thomas said any talk of resting Rose in an effort to protect him from injury is foolish.
"I have a West Side mentality, and that is you're either fighting to get it or fighting to keep it," he said. "But make no mistake about it, you are always in the fight. . . . You want to sit me down and coddle me?"

Thomas played through a dislocated toe early in his career and acknowledged, "Derrick is 190 pounds getting hit by guys 240, 250, sometimes bigger, and make no mistake, the hits do hurt. You're like Sugar Ray Leonard trying to fight Mike Tyson.
"(My toe) was painful. Anything below the hips for a point guard definitely changes your game, and then for small guys, you have to be so fine-tuned that anything of that kind throws off your rhythm in terms of your knees, ankles or feet. ... What Derrick has got to transfer from is that now his greatest strength has to become his mind and not necessarily just his physical gifts."

Melissa Isaacson writes for ESPNChicago.com.

Chicago Bulls Derrick Rose sought advice from Isiah Thomas - ESPN Chicago

[Dave Bing]

What Derrick has got to transfer from is that now his greatest strength has to become his mind and not necessarily just his physical gifts.

I think that Rose has a good start in that department. Unlike the BSP

[mn3]

Thanks - that was a really great article about what Zeke said. It's like an insight into the warriors mind.

Not many players ever wanted to win that bad and were willing to sacrifice that much. We were lucky as hell that we got to draft him. Dallas probably kicked themselves for 15 years.

[Stefan S]

Originally Posted by mn3

Thanks - that was a really great article about what Zeke said. It's like an insight into the warriors mind.

Not many players ever wanted to win that bad and were willing to sacrifice that much. We were lucky as hell that we got to draft him. Dallas probably kicked themselves for 15 years.

That was my impression, too -- "an insight..."

Eventually, we got the #1 pic anyway. When MA joined us, it was the curtains for everyone else (well, until Stern ruined the game by changinf the rules to protect MJ, who probably would have won a few rings anyway).

[Stefan S]

Originally Posted by Dave Bing

What Derrick has got to transfer from is that now his greatest strength has to become his mind and not necessarily just his physical gifts.

I think that Rose has a good start in that department. Unlike the BSP

he definitely has not only talents but also the warrior's mentality. An incredible player.

(one thing, though, like Zeke and later MJ, he has to learn to trust his guys. It was so visible during the last game against the heat; he was forcing it despite of the fact he did not have it going that night and, even more importantly, his guys (e.g., Rip) were wide open.

BTW, who / what is the BSP?

[Dave Bing]

The Big Soft Pussy. Used to be known as the Big Floppy Pussy.

[Stefan S]

Originally Posted by Dave Bing

The Big Soft Pussy. Used to be known as the Big Floppy Pussy.

~chuckle~~~ it needs comic sans, though

[papalawrence]

You've likely read this already.......Iverson is broke:

Allen Iverson Has No Answer For Financial Woes | ThePostGame

[Stefan S]

"This isn't just another formerly famous athlete blowing a ton of cash. Iverson was among the biggest superstars in the NBA, earning more than $154 million during a professional career that began back in 1996. (This doesn't include endorsement money and other business deals.)"

Wow!

[Dave Bing]

That's insane.

[Stefan S]

Originally Posted by Dave Bing

That's insane.

It's totally crazy.

"Loyal to his friends from a youth spent in Virginia, Iverson traveled with one of the biggest posses in professional sports. Bill Lyon of the Philadelphia Inquirer says the group has as many as 50 people for some Sixers home games."

But this still mean he blew in excess of 3 mills per each of his peeps.

[DYNOMITE]

Come on, it is entirely possible that Iverson has no money, but that article only mentions one incident and one bank account. A ton of speculation in there.

[tin mad dog]

Scrabble's having a down year after signing for the big bucks. Every category except for steals (up .01) and, unfortunately, turnovers (up .3) is down.

[tin mad dog]

Originally Posted by DYNOMITE

Come on, it is entirely possible that Iverson has no money, but that article only mentions one incident and one bank account. A ton of speculation in there.

[whoDean]

Rasheed Wallace to the Lakers rumor is circulating.

[El Axe]

Originally Posted by whoDean

Rasheed Wallace to the Lakers rumor is circulating.

I heard that and I wondered: what did Mike Brown ever do to deserve that roster?

[DYNOMITE]

Mike Brown has fooled a few GM's.

[hack]

LOL. Sheed is signing with all our rivals and sabotaging them. It will infuriate Kobe when Sheed dogs it because Kobe's a ballhog.

Next year; Bulls.

[Lou Stefanic]

Is it wrong that I'm hoping Sheed joins the Obama campaign after the season ends?

[RodimusPrime]

Sheed is a loud mouth that says a lot of dumb shit and has impulse control problems. He's going with Gingrich.

[Jeff Hause]

Originally Posted by hack

LOL. Sheed is signing with all our rivals and sabotaging them. It will infuriate Kobe when Sheed dogs it because Kobe's a ballhog.

Next year; Bulls.

Because Andrew Bynum doesn't complain enough. He needs a mentor...

[papalawrence]

Freep has a story about Sheed likely heading to LA.

[hack]

LOL @ the memory of Sheed complaining about having to go to the White House after they won. ``I didn't vote for him but it's something we're forced to do'', or somesuch.

[B.I.G.]

LOL. Remember him saying that. That was funny....lol

[detroitsportsfan]

I think Allen Iverson is attempting another comeback to the NBA.

[Stefan S]

Originally Posted by detroitsportsfan

I think Allen Iverson is attempting another comeback to the NBA.

...and, unfortunately, he is a former Piston.
(I wish it was easier to forget those times.)

[mn3]

Desperate times in LA, eh?

Does Sheed have 4 months of quality BB left in his legs? Sheed from 5 - 7 years ago would have been a perfect short term acquisition for any contending team. But now? I have a hard time believing this old guy can play much on a championship team.

[Stefan S]

Would Wallace's Un-Retirement Help the Lakers? - NYTimes.com

[Jeff Hause]

Originally Posted by Stefan S

Would Wallace's Un-Retirement Help the Lakers? - NYTimes.com

He's only a "a much-missed court jester" when he's playing for the other team...

[Dave Bing]

This is a pretty fascinating piece on the Malice at the Palace. Mostly from the perspective of the Pacers but a lot of things that I did not know (or maybe don't remember.) Long and worth reading.

An oral history of the Malice at the Palace - Grantland

[The King]

Ya, that was a good read. My work productivity dropped dramatically today with that article.

I guess the main thing I forgot was it was Ben's first game back after his brother died. They picked the guy to fuck with. I will always remember that night. Also, we forget just how good that Pacers team was. They were a tough team with a lot of youth and a bright future. The fight ended that team that night.

That game with the Tay block was one of the best I have ever seen. I still have it on tape. I bust it out every now and then.

[Hobbs]

Jim Gray can fuck off. He's a slimy little piece of shit.

[The King]

I thought LB said something to the crowd. In the article it said he picked up the mic, but didn't say anything. I recall him addressing the crowd and talking about not throwing objects on the court.

[Dave Bing]

I definitely remember LB talking to the crowd. But maybe my memory is faulty.

[Dave Bing]

How is life, King? You still teaching?

[hack]

-Wow @ Jim Gray.

-LOL that Laimbeer ``wasn't phased by it''.

-O'Neal; what a punk.

[tin mad dog]

Donnie Walsh (CEO and president, Pacers):
Ronnie did try to get away from it because he had been told, "If you see yourself getting too excited, disengage and get yourself out of it and get your thoughts together." That's why he went down and laid down on the table. It was so he wouldn't get all excited and do something wrong.

Are you kidding me? I always saw that as a taunt/mocking of Wallace's anger. A way to disengage is to walk away. Crazy Ron didn't deserve the cup but he was not defusing the situation at all.

[hack]

Agreed. That was a provocation for sure.