[whoDean]

Originally Posted by Stefan S

homerizm

Who, Newman? Nah, couldn't be.

[hack]

Sometimes you can envision the little guys on either shoulder fighting with each other when he posts, which is fun, but this is definitely NIP Newman.

[whoDean]

Cousins' Talents Flying Under the Radar in Sacramento - NYTimes.com

Cousins rarely does anything quietly, but his offensive dominance this season has flown squarely under the radar. He barely registers in discussions about the league's up-and-comers, despite the fact that, at just 21 years old, he ranks third in the N.B.A. this season in double-doubles. He nearly pulled off back-to-back 20-20 games in the last three days (with a 21-point, 20-rebound performance against Golden State, and a 28-point, 19-rebound outing in New Orleans), and yet Cousins made a mere blip in the collective basketball coverage and consciousness.

[Greg] Monroe's case has already been made and affirmed this season, as he's quickly established himself as the Pistons' best player and a legitimate All-Star candidate. But Cousins' résumé is even more impressive, and a testament to both his incredible talent and the savvy of Kings Coach Keith Smart. Cousins didn't struggle in his games under former Kings coach Paul Westphal, but Smart is giving him the playing time he deserves, putting him position to succeed and — harsh as it sounds — actually being coached. Smart seems to have already made bigger strides with Cousins in 17 games than Westphal did in the previous 89, a fact that says plenty about the ability of both coaches.

That said, Smart's success is built on the strength of Cousins' skill and basketball instincts. He's not a miracle worker, but merely a coach finally giving Cousins the essentials that he has long needed. With that crucial foundation finally in place, Cousins has put up averages of 19 points (on 46 percent shooting) and 14.2 rebounds per 36 minutes this season. No 21-year-old has ever produced at such a prolific level in the history of the N.B.A., making Cousins' success this year unprecedented.

Cousins isn't the first post player to come into the league as a refined scorer, but what makes him unique is the way his fundamental skill benefits from his modern understanding of on-court space. Cousins isn't a "throwback" player in any sense; as odd as it sounds, Cousins is closer to being a 7-foot Manu Ginobili than an iteration of the Tim Duncan archetype, a telling demonstration of which came when Cousins burned Hornets center Chris Kaman with a Euro step en route to the rim on Monday night. There's no question that his scoring game is still predicated on height and touch, but those two attributes only come into play as facilitating elements of Cousins' creativity and unusual sense of timing.

[hack]

But Cousins loses control in his scoring attempts almost willfully, as if the initial, completely inaccurate attempt were only a setup

seems to have turned the entire process into a whimsical artistic exercise

Whoa. I love Cousins, but writer definitely got a little carried away. I'd also like to know what it is Smart's doing. But, either way, there should be no more talk of trading for him. They canned a coach for him and they're getting results. It's gonna take a top-ten player to pry him outta there at this point. That could change, but for it would start at Monroe and Knight.

[mn3]

So - give Cousins 20 games of good behavior and great inspired play each time a coach is fired, followed by, what 1o games of sliding a bit, 5 - 10 more games after that where he's getting surly and blaming teammates, his coaches or both for his lot, then fire the next coach so the team can get 20 more of good-Cousins?

[diecast75]

just be glad we did not end up with epke udoh. or whatever

[Whiteman]

Ekpe is still raw but is starting to shoot jump shots now. His offensive game is way behind Monroes and Cousins. Were lucky and should be thrilled to have Monroe fall to us. This could be slightly like the Darko Bosh situation.

[Lou Stefanic]

Originally Posted by hack

It's gonna take a top-ten player to pry him outta there at this point. That could change, but for it would start at Monroe and Knight.

If Sacramento wouldn't accept Monroe straight up in a trade for Cousins, doesn't that tell you which player is viewed more valuably -- at least presently? Or is it simply because they've invested too much in him at this point with firing the coach for him?

My view on Monroe is that I'm pleasantly surprised at where he's at now -- he seems to have all of the talent and work ethic needed to be at least a second-tier star in this league. I wouldn't trade him for Cousins at this point -- based on the low floor/high ceiling factor discussed throughout this thread -- but I certainly see why other teams would prefer the gamble of Cousins over the steadiness of Monroe.

[mn3]

Given the attitude issue, I don't think any team in the league right now would trade Monroe for Cousins. Obviously, a lot has changed in the last year and 1/2.

[Stefan S]

By the way, to put things in perspective, for the first time since the time immemorial, we consistently outscore other teams in the paint (and that's mostly GM and what he is able to open up for others).

[B.I.G.]

Can we officially take Aldrich out of the title? I didn't even put that on there anyways..LOL

[Lou Stefanic]

Done, Biggie.

[Hobbs]

We should trade for Aldrich, btw.

He's got no future in OKC, but he's still potentially the same player as before. Wonder if they'd take Bynum and a second rounder.

[B.I.G.]

Thanks Lou, maybe he can go back on if he actually plays.

[B.I.G.]

I"ll do that trade. I don't think I would give up a second round pick as our 2nd round pick this will most likely be a high first round.

[hack]

Originally Posted by Lou Stefanic

If Sacramento wouldn't accept Monroe straight up in a trade for Cousins, doesn't that tell you which player is viewed more valuably -- at least presently? Or is it simply because they've invested too much in him at this point with firing the coach for him?

My view on Monroe is that I'm pleasantly surprised at where he's at now -- he seems to have all of the talent and work ethic needed to be at least a second-tier star in this league. I wouldn't trade him for Cousins at this point -- based on the low floor/high ceiling factor discussed throughout this thread -- but I certainly see why other teams would prefer the gamble of Cousins over the steadiness of Monroe.

Agree with the above. I don't think they would do a straight up Cousins/Monroe, and I don't think I would either. The potential benefits of Cousins I'm not sure are worth the extra trouble, because Monroe's pretty damn effective and might be less of a black hole and a better defender long-term.

[Billl]

If monroe keeps improving like this, the "potential" argument isn't going to hold much water. For centers, he's at #3 in scoring and #5 in rebounding. That is the whole league, not just the draft class. Besides dwight howard, nobody is having a significantly better season at center. I'm not saying he is a clear cut #2 or anything, but he's in the conversation with anyone right now and he is still improving.

[DYNOMITE]

Originally Posted by Billl

If monroe keeps improving like this, the "potential" argument isn't going to hold much water. For centers, he's at #3 in scoring and #5 in rebounding. That is the whole league, not just the draft class. Besides dwight howard, nobody is having a significantly better season at center. I'm not saying he is a clear cut #2 or anything, but he's in the conversation with anyone right now and he is still improving.

I agree. He is a franchise big right now. The question going forward will be how to best surround him with what will be available. Some good discussion in the draft thread.

[mn3]

Originally Posted by Billl

If monroe keeps improving like this, the "potential" argument isn't going to hold much water. For centers, he's at #3 in scoring and #5 in rebounding. That is the whole league, not just the draft class. Besides dwight howard, nobody is having a significantly better season at center. I'm not saying he is a clear cut #2 or anything, but he's in the conversation with anyone right now and he is still improving.

He has a great PER this season, just behind Howard as the #2 ranked Center in the league, and one of the top 12 PERs overall in the league (among players playing significant minutes every game).

[Stefan S]

What Billl said.

And what I said last night in the game thread: I see him catching the ball in the pain and I find myself thinking, "an automatic 2".

Also, he is very unselfish and loves to make plays for others. Last night, he had 4 assists, at least one other pass resulted in FTs, some other passes were botched by others.

We are extremely fortunate he plays for our team.

[Stefan S]

1. Who is the biggest All-Star snub in the East?

...

Graydon Gordian, 48 Minutes of Hell: Greg Monroe. Given the fact that he underachieved slightly in college and plays for a struggling Pistons franchise, Monroe has spent his young career toiling in anonymity. But make no mistake: He's currently playing better than a couple of the more famous guys on the East's roster.


Ian Levy, The Two-Man Game: Greg Monroe. Team success is and has always been part of the All-Star equation, but you can't ignore the pillar of strength Monroe has been in Detroit's maelstrom of ineptitude. His terrific production isn't pushing the Pistons into the postseason, but could anyone besides LeBron, Howard or Rose make this a playoff team?

...


3. Which East All-Star selection is the biggest surprise?

...

Graydon Gordian, 48 Minutes of Hell: Roy Hibbert. Hibbert is a better NBA player than I thought he would be. But he's still not a better player than Monroe. Hibbert's selection strikes me as an attempt to recognize Indiana's achievements this season, not choose the best player at his position in the East.

NBA All-Star Game reserve snubs and surprises - ESPN

[Kstat]

You wonder if Monroe won't go as Deng's replacement.

[Stefan S]

Why would it be?
I thought Deng is back from his injury.

[mn3]

Hollinger's NBA Player Stats - ESPN Insider - National Basketball Association - ESPN

I get that Howard is a superior player, but Monroe has a higher PER today.

How low is Monroe's ceiling? I'm thinking it's higher than anyone could reasonably have hoped for when we drafted him or even after he became an outstanding rookie after January 1, 2011.

[Stefan S]

How bad are we as a team? I know those are but stats, but... Only Monroe is ranked in the top 10 at his position (#1) and only Stuckey approaches top 20.

[Kstat]

That's not nearly as bad as you make it sound.

It's entirely possible that we draft another top-10 player next summer, and Brandon Knight and Stuckey are both top-20 at their positions next season.

[mn3]

Originally Posted by Kstat

That's not nearly as bad as you make it sound.

It's entirely possible that we draft another top-10 player next summer, and Brandon Knight and Stuckey are both top-20 at their positions next season.

Exactly, although I'd say Stuckey is already well within the top 20 at his position. By next season we could have a really nice young future team in place. And I'd include JJ off the bench as a legitimate rotation player.

This could be pretty enjoyable.

[Stefan S]

Originally Posted by Kstat

That's not nearly as bad as you make it sound.

It's entirely possible that we draft another top-10 player next summer, and Brandon Knight and Stuckey are both top-20 at their positions next season.

Sure we have some pieces and will have some chances to draft well. And, yeah, we should improve. However....

Thereare 30 teams in the league. Since our guys currently usually ranked in high 30s and 40s, it means that virtually all teams have better starters and many teams have reserves who are better than our starters.

I'd say that currently we are one of the bottom 5 teams.

[Kstat]

All you have to do is look at our record for that....

[Stefan S]

Originally Posted by Kstat

All you have to do is look at our record for that....

shit, I forgot there is this option.

[papalawrence]

I'd agree they are a bottom 5-7 team......but I really like the young core, especially Monroe and Knight - both really young, work hard to improve and seem to be coachable and good chemistry guys. Then there are....the......ping pong balls!

[B.I.G.]

Uh oh....It's Cousins vs. Monroe time. Let's see who gets the better of the two :-).

[papalawrence]

Originally Posted by B.I.G.

Uh oh....It's Cousins vs. Monroe time. Let's see who gets the better of the two :-).

Not even close this round.

[Kstat]

Monroe 4, cousins 0.

[whoDean]

GMo sure outplayed Cousins last night!

[Kstat]

A Bill Simmons piece re-posted because I forgot about this thread...

22. Mystery Player B



All right, release that thought (from Mystery Player A, ranked no. 32 in Part 1). Contrast these 2011-12 numbers …


Mystery Player A: 29.4 MPG, 16.2 PPG, 11.4 RPG, 1.2 APG, 1.2 BPG, 43% FG, 73% FT, 21 PER



Mystery Player B: 32.7 MPG, 16.4 PPG, 10.3 RPG, 2.5 APG, 0.6 BPG, 50% FG, 79% FT, 23 PER


Slight edge to Player B, right?


OK, so let's say Player B is a normal guy … and Player A is an unpredictable loose cannon who may or may not have just gotten his first coach fired a few weeks ago. Now which guy are you taking?


Here's the point: Boogie Cousins gets more hype than Greg Monroe; he got drafted two picks ahead of him; his upside seems like it should be higher; he's more fun to follow; he has a better nickname; and he's always going to seem a little more overpowering when he has it going. In the Grantland headquarters, we've probably had 20 Boogie Cousins conversations and 135 moments where Jay Kang cackled, "I LOVE BOOGIE!!!!" I don't remember anyone discussing Greg Monroe even once. I'm not even sure half our staff knows what he looks like. Just know that Sacramento would flip Boogie for Monroe in a cocaine heartbeat … and if the roles were reversed, Detroit would hang up.

[ThaMaestro]

Is that Simmons complimenting something about Detroit?

[Kstat]

Originally Posted by ThaMaestro

Is that Simmons complimenting something about Detroit?

He's not a huge Cousins fan.

[Jeff Hause]

POSTGAME: DeMarcus Cousins - Kings Center | Video | news10.net

[mn3]

Originally Posted by Jeff Hause

POSTGAME: DeMarcus Cousins - Kings Center | Video | news10.net

Electrifying, confidence-filling, personality, that guy.

[B.I.G.]

LOL. Damn. Cousins making me look bad.... Who's more talented though? LOL

[Stefan S]

Originally Posted by B.I.G.

LOL. Damn. Cousins making me look bad.... Who's more talented though? LOL

Laughing out loud makes you look even worse.

[B.I.G.]

I know does it? Screw it Monroe is better

[Stefan S]

Originally Posted by mn3

Electrifying, confidence-filling, personality, that guy.

they seem to be a hapless mess of a team w/o any direction.
(Sort of like we were last year. At least, Monroe always acted professional through all of this.)

[Kstat]

He's not more talented, but he's certainly more valuable at this point.

Good or bad, you don't ever have to worry about Monroe having issues that hurt team chemistry. The guy shows up, plays hard, does his job and that's it. There's something to be said about reliability.

Monroe is also more versatile in that he can play PF or C, which gives us more options in deciding who we pair him with in the long term. Cousins can't even defend his own position without fouling.

[B.I.G.]

Yeah I'm Glad he slipped to us and to think I wanted them to trade up and get rid of tayshawn for the 5th pick. That right there actually may have gotten Dumars fired.

[Stefan S]

Originally Posted by B.I.G.

I know does it? Screw it Monroe is better

he surely is.

Things still may change, Cuz is very young and let us not underestimate his mean streak and talents.

I bet, most GMs would have drafted Cuz when both of them were available. Then, again, most would have drafter Darko, too (over Wade, Bosh or Melo).

[B.I.G.]

Exactly. Who knows as bad as I want Anthony Davis in Red, White and Blue, the best player in that draft class could be Perry Jones III, you just never know man. Pistons have to do their homework.