[Big Jerm]

Originally Posted by detroitsportsfan

.....coming from the guy that says Will Bynum sucks 80-90% of the time. How is he even in the league???

You're right, I'm clearly the one who has no clue what I'm talking about here, as is everyone else who disagrees with your delusions.

[detroitsportsfan]

you said it, not me. fricken' moron.

Originally Posted by hack

Meanwhile it's a relief that we have you here to be correct and keep us all as connected to truth and reality as is possible given that we are such morons.

[detroitsportsfan]

Most people in this forum aren't making ridiculous statements as you are.

Originally Posted by Big Jerm

You're right, I'm clearly the one who has no clue what I'm talking about here, as is everyone else who disagrees with your delusions.

[Big Jerm]

Originally Posted by detroitsportsfan

Most people in this forum aren't making ridiculous statements as you are.

I only count 1 person making ridiculous statements, and it isn't me.

Time to stop feeding the troll. I'm out.

[detroitsportsfan]

See Ya!!!

[Big Jerm]

I'll be back next time you come up with something stupid. Tomorrow, shall we say?

[detroitsportsfan]

yeah, like you never say anything dumb. why do you think i got on you, ya fricken' moron?

[tin mad dog]

I think maybe we need to point DSF to a site where it shows how the Pistons record improved after we added Webber. Do I have to dust off the archives for the 3rd time to show what happened in the cavs series when Webber was in and what happened when Webber was out?

He can't back up any of his claims but he keeps on making them.

The Pistons were middle of the road without Webber (21-15) and wound up winning their division and getting to the ECF (and should've won) with him.


Nazr averaged 7.5, 5.6, .6 assists and a hair over a block as a starter.

With Detroit, Webber averaged 11.5, 6.7, 3.0 and .6 blocks as a starter.

So, if you were keeping score, the Pistons won more with Webber and got more production out of him.


The preceding message was brought to you by the word "Duh".

[Stefan S]

Da Duh!!!

[detroitsportsfan]

Yeah, Webber brought us a championship....ummmm...no he didn't. Fools Gold. There was a stretch where Webber actually did play well for the Pistons but it didn't last. Fools Gold. Yeah, he played well in one or two playoff games but didn't offer much in the others. Fools Gold. Moving Nazr and bringing in Webber was supposed to the equivalent of bringing Sheed to the Pistons (which actually did result in a championship). Fools Gold. If Webber was so productive as a Piston, why didn't the Pistons want him back??? Answer that one question. Don't think you can. If Webber was still productive as a player, why didn't he remain in the NBA??? Answer that question too. Don't think you can. Fools Gold.

[tin mad dog]

We've got Rain Man here, minus the Savant part. Enjoy Wapner.

[tin mad dog]

Maybe that's too harsh. You are not an idiot.

I'll just leave it to saying your argument is not very well based in reality.

[Stefan S]

Webber was surely not the "old" Webber because he was getting old.
But, still, he was much better than Nazr
and the best reinforcement we could have gotten.
Not good enough, for sure. But there was no one better available.

[detroitsportsfan]

He wasn't MUCH better than Nazr. He wasn't even close to the player he was in Sacramento. (How I would've loved to see that Webber on the Pistons but he burned the Pistons by not signing with them then and instead resigning with the Kings.) If anything, Webber was a distraction. He became a prima donna. Demanding that "the ball go through him." Wanted to be more involved in the offense. Wanted more minutes. It was all about Webber and not about the Pistons. There was no chemistry with Webber. Just didn't fit.

[detroitsportsfan]

If Webber was so productive as a Piston, why didn't the Pistons want him back??? Answer that one question. Don't think you can. If Webber was still productive as a player, why didn't he remain in the NBA??? Answer that question too. Don't think you can. Fools Gold.

Originally Posted by tin mad dog

Maybe that's too harsh. You are not an idiot.

I'll just leave it to saying your argument is not very well based in reality.

[RodimusPrime]

We didn't move Nazr to bring in Webber. Here is Nazr tenure here in a nutshell.
1. Joe signed him in a panic move after Ben bolted and the Joel Pryzbilla spurned us.
2. Nazr sucked.
3. Nazr lost his playing time to Dale Davis.
4. Webber got bought out by the 76ers.
5. We signed Webber to the vets min.
6. Davis became the 4th big behind Sheed, Dice and Dale.
7. Nazr's goofy ass warmed seats on the bench.
8. Joe decided not to keep Webber.
9. Next season Nazr still couldn't crack the rotation.
10. In probably his last good trade Dumars managed to dumb Nazr's albatross of a contract for expiring ones.

The End.

[detroitsportsfan]

Prior to becoming a Piston, Joe D liked Nazr Mohammed. I remember Joe D saying positive things about Nazr when he was an Atlanta Hawk. Nazr seemingly always played well against the Pistons.

Still no answer as to why the Pistons didn't keep Webber or nobody else wanted Webber (?). Nazr is still in the league. If I remember right, Nazr played pretty well against the Pistons in one game this season.

[tin mad dog]

Originally Posted by detroitsportsfan

If Webber was so productive as a Piston, why didn't the Pistons want him back??? Answer that one question. Don't think you can. If Webber was still productive as a player, why didn't he remain in the NBA??? Answer that question too. Don't think you can. Fools Gold.

I can't answer that and you can't answer that. I don't recall if they asked him to come back or not. It may have been a question of money, not whether his knee was still hindering him.

That said, we're not talking about 2007-08, we're talking about 2006-07.

You still haven't owned up to recognizing that Detroit IMMEDIATELY improved with Webber and also that we had a more effective offense with him.
After adding Webber, fouls went down, assists went up, FG % went up, turnovers went slightly down, opponents scoring went down, steals went up and most importantly, WINS went up dramatically. 21-15 prior to Webber (and losers of 7 of the last 10 games) and 32-14 after adding Webber.

You also are ignoring that the fact is, in the ECF we more often than not outscored the cavs when Webber was in the game and were more often than not outscored by the cavs when Webber was out of the game. I'm not just talking about his overall +/- in the series, I'm talking about each time he was in or out.

Go check the scoring summaries since you seem to be fuzzy on the whole time he was with Detroit. It might not be what you want to see but it's the truth.

I also now see where how you've allowed your rationality to be skewed.

(How I would've loved to see that Webber on the Pistons but he burned the Pistons by not signing with them then and instead resigning with the Kings.)

You are the jilted lover.

You wanted 2003 Webber and I can't blame you. I wanted that too.

That still doesn't mean you have to block out the fact that he was an effective role player when he got here, much like T-Mac has been for us this season.

[Jeff Hause]

Signing a starting PF who averaged 11 pts, 7 rebounds and 3 assists in 29 minutes for the league minimum was "fool's gold," but signing Nazr for five years was a good move and we should have started him.

God bless you for giving us something to laugh at this season...

[Big Jerm]

Originally Posted by detroitsportsfan

yeah, like you never say anything dumb. why do you think i got on you, ya fricken' moron?

I say Bynum sucks most of the time, and you say Nazr was more deserving of playing time than Webber, and I'm the "fricken' moron." I love your logic, and the way that you have to resort to childish name calling. You might want to ask yourself though, why everyone else shares my opinion and not yours......just a thought, genius.

[Big Jerm]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Nazr's nickname during his time in Detroit "dog shit" among a lot of the posters on this forum? Fool's Gold is surely better than Dog Shit, so maybe that's where delusion boy gets his ideas for names?

[hack]

It's hard to make DSF's argument MORE ridiculous, but when you factor in that Nazr was making somewhere around 6 times the salary Webber was...

[Mainevent]

I think there is a special level of basketball hell where they make fans of good basketball watch games where their teams rely heavily on Nazr and Will Bynum.

[hack]

It's so nice to be here.

[Statman Crothers]

This is a funny thread!

I have to tell one on myself. I have tended to get Kwame Brown and Nazr Mohammed and their accomplishments if you can call it that with the Detroit Pistons confused with each other. I have to go to other sites to sort that out the numbers I mean. It does not make it much easier when they now find themselves both playing for Michael Jordan's team the Charlotte Bobcats. LOL!

[Statman Crothers]

Currently it is disturbing that the Pistons have lost their last two games and 3 out of their last 4 but the losses have all been to teams with a greater winning percentage than Detroits.

Another team with a better record comes to town tonight in the Atlanta Hawks.

Atlanta is 33-20 and has just come off of a loss to the Charlotte Bobcats where our old friends Kwame and Nazr play. Kwame had 2 points 6 rebounds and a block and Nazr had 5 points 9 rebounds and 3 blocks. It got the names correct there LOL.

Greg Monroe will have to contend with Al Horford who is having a very good year. He is averaging 16.2 points 9.9 rebounds and 1.1 blocks. He is coming off being injured so maybe we will catch him at less than full-strength.

Detroit is 5 1/2 games out of the playoff race so if they want to make the post-season now would be a good time to start making a push. They only have 27 more games to close that gap.

I think I may have time to watch this one tonight.

[detroitsportsfan]

I think TMac has been more effective (a bit surprisingly) as a Piston than CWebb was. You can say what you want about Webber but the fact was, the Pistons didn't want him back and nobody else in the NBA wanted him either (except for a very short stint in Golden State). If he was that VALUABLE to the Pistons, Detroit or some other NBA team would've given him another chance. Webber was delusional in thinking that he was still a legit starter in the league and could have near the impact on a team as he did with Sacramento (which is why I compared him to Daunte Culpepper when with the Lions).

Originally Posted by tin mad dog

I can't answer that and you can't answer that. I don't recall if they asked him to come back or not. It may have been a question of money, not whether his knee was still hindering him.

That said, we're not talking about 2007-08, we're talking about 2006-07.

You still haven't owned up to recognizing that Detroit IMMEDIATELY improved with Webber and also that we had a more effective offense with him.
After adding Webber, fouls went down, assists went up, FG % went up, turnovers went slightly down, opponents scoring went down, steals went up and most importantly, WINS went up dramatically. 21-15 prior to Webber (and losers of 7 of the last 10 games) and 32-14 after adding Webber.

You also are ignoring that the fact is, in the ECF we more often than not outscored the cavs when Webber was in the game and were more often than not outscored by the cavs when Webber was out of the game. I'm not just talking about his overall +/- in the series, I'm talking about each time he was in or out.

Go check the scoring summaries since you seem to be fuzzy on the whole time he was with Detroit. It might not be what you want to see but it's the truth.

I also now see where how you've allowed your rationality to be skewed.


You are the jilted lover.

You wanted 2003 Webber and I can't blame you. I wanted that too.

That still doesn't mean you have to block out the fact that he was an effective role player when he got here, much like T-Mac has been for us this season.

[Big Jerm]

I don't think anyone here is going to argue with you about the fact that Webber was a shell of his former self by the time he got to Detroit. However, that's not to say that he didn't add value when he was healthy. Running the offense through him in the high post was very effective, as he was one of the best passing big men of his time. It's hard to feel bad about signing the local hero to the league minimum for a shot to put the team over the top. It didn't work out, but we certainly didn't lose that year because of the Webber signing.

[hack]

It was a low-risk move that could have paid off. Webber screaming ``Let me play my game!!!'' at Flip during the Cleveland series isn't exactly what you want in a mid-season signee, but for all we know Webber might have been right. Flip was wrong about a lotta stuff until 2008, when he finally managed at a coach to avoid hurting the team's chances. Either way, that's right -- we didn't lose b/c of the Webber signing, and actually there's plenty of evidence that suggests he helped. What's so hard to imagine, however, is why anyone would have such a hard time with signing a ringless but talented vet to a minimum contract. No harm in it whatsoever.

[tin mad dog]

Originally Posted by hack

It was a low-risk move that could have paid off. Webber screaming ``Let me play my game!!!'' at Flip during the Cleveland series isn't exactly what you want in a mid-season signee, but for all we know Webber might have been right. .

The effectiveness of the offense with Webber in during that series points to Webber being right.

With all due (and none is due) respect to DSF's opinion on this, I'm pretty sure scoring more than the opponent is a good thing.

[tin mad dog]

Originally Posted by detroitsportsfan

I think TMac has been more effective (a bit surprisingly) as a Piston than CWebb was. You can say what you want about Webber but the fact was, the Pistons didn't want him back and nobody else in the NBA wanted him either (except for a very short stint in Golden State). If he was that VALUABLE to the Pistons, Detroit or some other NBA team would've given him another chance. Webber was delusional in thinking that he was still a legit starter in the league and could have near the impact on a team as he did with Sacramento (which is why I compared him to Daunte Culpepper when with the Lions).

It's good to know you were Webber's receptionist in 2007-08 and monitoring his phone calls.
Where was he quoted as being close to a top MVP candidate like he was in Sacto?

21-15 and losing 7 out of 10 just turned into a 53 win season by coincidence I guess.

Undeniably, a FOOLS GOLD argument by the Jilted Lover.

[Detroit Playa]

We need sheed back!!! :,(

[Stefan S]

Rumors are that the Celts need / want him back, too.

[hack]

There needs to be an emoticon with a comma and its mirror image atop it. How awesome would it be to have a smiley with a handlebar mustache?

[Kstat]

Originally Posted by Stefan S

Rumors are that the Celts need / want him back, too.

Well, more accurately is Sheed wants to come back. I highly doubt he's kept himself in good enough shape to be ready for the playoffs.

[hack]

Can you imagine a player less able? He was on the roster all year last year and could barely get up and down the court when he was really needed in last year's Game 7. What a disappointment. That said, he's disconnected from reality enough to think that he could do it.

[Kstat]

On a side note, one of the local radio guys here accidentally sent his valentine's day text to his girlfriend to Rasheed Wallace. I guess it was his most recent contact because Sheed is on the radio all the time here for interviews when March Madness is coming up.

[Jeff Hause]

Originally Posted by hack

It was a low-risk move that could have paid off. Webber screaming ``Let me play my game!!!'' at Flip during the Cleveland series isn't exactly what you want in a mid-season signee, but for all we know Webber might have been right. Flip was wrong about a lotta stuff until 2008, when he finally managed at a coach to avoid hurting the team's chances.

I've got news for you: If Brown had those guys instead of Ben Wallace, we wouldn't have won with him coaching, either...

[hack]

Definitely true. Ben was our best player.