[hack]

Swap out Curry for the Flip hire, add in Darko and forget Kuester and I'd agree. By the time Curry and Kuester were hired there wasn't a whole lot at stake anyways. When Flip was hired there was a ton at stake. Making the right hire there -- maybe Nate McMillan -- could have resulted in another ring.

[Dave Bing]

I wasn't counting Darko, that was a hundred years ago. And moving Billups for an expiring was probably the right thing to do.

[EJV]

Trading Billups for an expiring contract while at the same time extending Hamilton was not the right thing to do.

[Stefan S]

Originally Posted by EJV

Trading Billups for an expiring contract while at the same time extending Hamilton was not the right thing to do.

Yes but no!

OK, seriously though-- yes, it turned out terrible.
But Dimars' hands were all tied up.
I bet he would have rectified it all time ago if it was possible/up to him.

[Stefan S]

Dumars needs to be called out for what has happened to Pistons
By Chris Stevens | 0 comments
Posted: Sunday, January 1, 2012 10:30 am | Updated: 8:46 am, Sun Jan 1, 2012.

We all like Joe Dumars, right?

A mild-mannered guy who's always been a class act in front of the public. A Detroit Pistons' Bad Boy legend. A two-time champ as a player, and an NBA title winner as a team executive. He's a Pistons' legend: the guy who wore No. 4.

I mean, that's our Joe. Even my wife, who's not a basketball fan, likes Joe Dumars. Maybe it's because he's called "Joe D" and her name is "Jodie," and she finds that commonality appealing. Not sure. All I know is that Joe Dumars is well-liked by a wide variety of people in this state.
That's why it's particularly painful to question what Dumars is doing with the Pistons. We want Joe to do well. Not just for Pistons' fans, but for him, too. You want Joe to succeed because you like him.

Then, there's the reality of it all.

Let's face it, for every home run that he has hit as the organization's team president (hiring Larry Brown, trading for Rasheed Wallace, drafting Tayshaun Prince, trading for Chauncey Billups and Ben Wallace), he's got an equally long list of strike-outs (hiring Michael Curry and John Kuester as coaches, signing Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva as big-money free agents, drafting Darko Milicic, trading Billups for Allen Iverson).

So what's up, Joe? Exactly who are you?
* Are you the guy who Pistons' fans can trust with the franchise's future?
* Or are you the guy who's going to bring this franchise into the depths of despair for the next several years? A perpetual "rebuilding" organization.

Joe, we'd like an answer.

Because right now, it doesn't look good. And this is on your watch, so you're responsible for what talent we're seeing on the floor.

Pistons' fans are trying to be hopeful, but from what feedback that I'm getting, they're not impressed with what they're watching.

Yes, it's early in the season, but the pieces of the puzzle just don't seem to fit. It's not a fun team to watch. There's no buzz about them because there's no big-time talent.

And that's going to make it a long, dreadful winter.

They lost the season-opener on the road to the Indiana Pacers, then lost their home opener to the Cleveland Cavaliers, a team that Detroit supposedly was going to finish ahead of in the Central Division. On Friday, the Celtics beat them in Boston.

Before the season, I predicted 20 wins for them. Now, after having watched them, I'm making that 15 wins.

They have holes that Dumars should know need filling. Their front-line scoring is below average, they need more size on the front-line, and their guard play is suspect.

Frankly, it was a mistake to give Rodney Stuckey a three-year extension reportedly worth $25 million. On a playoff-caliber team, he'd be a back-up. He's not worth that kind of money because he shouldn't be a starting point guard in the NBA.

Maybe Stuckey will improve and become a better player this season. That could happen, but I have my doubts. Dumars should have traded him last April when he refused to go into a game. This malcontent is their starting point guard, a guy who's the floor leader of the team?

Let's hope rookie Brandon Knight gets up to speed in a hurry, so Stuckey can watch from the bench.

Like I've said before, this is going to be an ugly season. I'm predicting that crowds at the Palace will dwindle as the season unfolds. Most will go to games to watch the opposing team's players -- guys like LeBron James, Derrick Rose, and Carmelo Anthony. They aren't there to watch a Pistons' superstar because they don't have one to watch.

And who's fault is that? Dumars.

The case against Dumars is growing. And that's tough to write because we all like Joe and want him to do well. Including me.

But the facts are the facts:
* The Pistons are going to struggle mightily this season after struggling mightily last season; and, really, this is not a hope-filled roster, especially compared to other young teams in the NBA;
* The Pistons haven't made the playoffs since the 2007-8 season;
* The Eastern Division has teams like New York, Chicago and Miami with young superstars who should be good for years to come; and even teams like Indiana and New Jersey and Philadelphia are young, with better talent than Detroit.

And if you think that Pistons' fans need to be patient with Dumars and give him more time to cultivate a winner, you might be right. But, then again, Dumars himself is not a very patient man with others. He's now hired six head coaches in his 10 years as team president.

Dumars has proven that he can lure top talent to Detroit and produce a winner.

Well, it's that time again.

And if he can't, then it's time for a change at the top.

Chris Stevens is sports editor at the Daily News. Email him at stevens@mdn.net

Dumars needs to be called out for what has happened to Pistons - Midland Daily News: Sports

[detroitsportsfan]

Dumars has made both great and questionable moves as GM for the Pistons. This goes for drafting, free agent acquisitions as well as trades. Now that the Davidsons are no longer the owners of the Pistons, there'll be a shorter leash on Dumars to get the Pistons turned around in the right direction.

[ThaMaestro]

Name a GM in the league that has ever batted 1.000%. Joe has been far from perfect the last few seasons, but it's understood that his hands were tied with the sale of the team. He had a lock-out and short offseason since his hands have been untied. I haven't liked the Tay and Stuckey signings, but they are not going to kill this team and prevent flexibility.

I know this is a what have you done for me lately league, but I think Joe deserves a chance to rebuild this team.

[DYNOMITE]

Rebuilding through attrition.

[papalawrence]

I still think very highly of Dumars and would hate to see him fired. Who would do better? You also have to remember how his hands were tied the past couple of years (ownership). And so far since the ownership change I would say he has done a very good job. The Pistons made at least the Eastern Conf series 11 times over a 22 yr period -- and Dumars was a part of all of them. So there are a few lean years........just be glad we don't root for ~ 70% of the NBA teams that always seem to be mired in mediocrity or worse.

[hack]

The ``Who Would Do Better'' question is an excellent one. And though I've been hungering for change for years now and the Prince signing didn't quench that thirst, it may end up a very good signing. I was hoping to find out what I needed to about Joe this offseason, but it's been too compressed. Sigh -- yet another effing year of waiting to see if Joe's gotten stale or not. He might have. We'll see.

[Stefan S]

One thing about this compressed preseason, though...

we seem to be making very smart calculating moves. For example, buying Rip out and saving our "wild card" for a possible later amnesty is such a move.

It's easy to be very critical that Joe does not make a big inspired and inspiring move. But we do not know that such a move is possible at this moment. All smaller moves so far work out beautifully.

[FadedMario]

Dumars got lucky with Knight and Monroe. If he got his way - we would have had Biyombo and Cousins instead. The fact Knight and Monroe slipped to him was luck - he obviously took the best players available.

[FadedMario]

I wish we had Laimbeer as an assistant coach here.

[hack]

Cousins very well may have been a bullet dodged. Mostly I feel this way because Monroe has turned out to be a better rebounder than advertised and not a defensive liability. With Biyombo, I wouldn't be so sure. We wouldn't be pining after a big so bad if we had him, and he's shown as much to be excited about as his position as Knight has at Knight's. We can forget about all that however, no matter how Biyombo turns out, if the draft falls our way in the spring and we get one of the elite defensive bigs.

[ghandi]

THeres alot of pressure on Dumars really...He's out of (ownership) excuses and now basically fields the same team as he had last year that was dismal (basically just added Knight).....Really he has gotten by on what he did in the past more than what he has done the last few years.....At some point that no longer flies....I think he is going to be pressed into a make or break move this year by the deadline, but just whom he can get and for what are hard to see right now.

[hack]

You can't do much other than coast on reputation when you've not been allowed to hit the gas pedal since 2008.

[Orwellian O.]

Joe D is not the problem...the terrible D from the the front court is.

[RodimusPrime]

I blame Rick Sund for how bad the frontline is. Hopefully Joe can clean up his mess.

[tin mad dog]

Originally Posted by FadedMario

Dumars got lucky with Knight and Monroe. If he got his way - we would have had Biyombo and Cousins instead. The fact Knight and Monroe slipped to him was luck - he obviously took the best players available.

That might still have worked out just fine, provided somebody could rattle some sense into Cuz's head.

[hack]

I'm more hopeful on Knight than I was, but let's keep things in perspective. Per 36 Biyimbo's at 7.2/10.1 with 3.6 blocks. That's more points than you might think for a guy so raw, and the rebounds and blocks are a delight. Knight is at 18.4 points and 4.6 assists -- nice! But in total he's got 11 assists and 10 turnovers.

For both players its a ridiculously small sample, so there's in reality no conclusions to draw from. But there's no evidence there at all that Dumars was, so to speak, saved from himself by not being able to draft Biyombo. Frankly I bet he would have passed on Biyombo for Knight anyways.

[Whitley]

Here is the thing. What are the two hardest things to find on a basketball team? A legitimate starting point guard along with a legitimate two way player down low (down low in this case is referring to the 4/5 spots).

Knight is struggling a bit, but what point guard doesn't earlyon in his rookie year? We do know (as fans) that Monroe is part of the answer down low.

For arguments sake let's say that Knight is the answer at the point. Now all of a sudden the Pistons have a young starting backcourt (Knight and Stuckey) along a piece down low (Monroe) and a smart heady vet at the 3 (Prince).

There are other young players floating around (Daye, Jonas) that can provide some help. If the Pistons wind up with a very talented big (that would be ideal) like an Andre Drummond type.....then things could take off for them. What they lack is that elite type player, but a lot of the other things are there at least in theory.

[Forsh]

MARKIEFF MORRIS is kind of looking like the real deal so far. He was a guy we were rumored to really like, and I'm quite sure would have been a target if we'd traded down.

Just a note.

[RugbyPike#11]

Originally Posted by hack

I'm more hopeful on Knight than I was, but let's keep things in perspective. Per 36 Biyimbo's at 7.2/10.1 with 3.6 blocks.

That's not bad, but looks pretty unproductive compared to Thabeet's per 36 average of 54.0/18.0.

[hack]

Morey will never trade him now.

[B.I.G.]

Andre Drummond average 9 points and 6 boards a game......NEXT!!!!

[FadedMario]

Fire Dumars and Frank. Bring in Laimbeer!!!!!!!!!!

[Mel Kiper Jr]

Originally Posted by ThaMaestro

Name a GM in the league that has ever batted 1.000%. Joe has been far from perfect the last few seasons, but it's understood that his hands were tied with the sale of the team. He had a lock-out and short offseason since his hands have been untied. I haven't liked the Tay and Stuckey signings, but they are not going to kill this team and prevent flexibility.

I know this is a what have you done for me lately league, but I think Joe deserves a chance to rebuild this team.

I agree with you and we are in the cyclical bottoming out that teams go through after years of success...BUT, what will get Dumars fired won't be the bad roster, it will be fans not going to games because there is no perceived hope.

Right or wrong- the empty seats are talking. This is a business and a new GM is a PR move. I doubt that they fire the coach since he's new.

Who will Gores bring in as GM then? Well...who would be a good PR move in Detroit? Isiah Thomas.

I doubt that Dumars gets fired...he will likely get re-assigned to somewhere else in the organization.

[Orwellian O.]

Originally Posted by Mel Kiper Jr

I agree with you and we are in the cyclical bottoming out that teams go through after years of success...BUT, what will get Dumars fired won't be the bad roster, it will be fans not going to games because there is no perceived hope.

Right or wrong- the empty seats are talking. This is a business and a new GM is a PR move. I doubt that they fire the coach since he's new.

Who will Gores bring in as GM then? Well...who would be a good PR move in Detroit? Isiah Thomas.

I doubt that Dumars gets fired...he will likely get re-assigned to somewhere else in the organization.

Dumars will get another year (after this one). This team just doesn't have enough talent at the moment.

[Mel Kiper Jr]

Originally Posted by Orwellian O.

Dumars will get another year (after this one). This team just doesn't have enough talent at the moment.

I think he should, but Gores isn't about to let the Palace sit empty.

I think Dumars has to make a big move or he's gone.

[Orwellian O.]

Dumars doesn't have any assets to trade at the moment.


He can probably do a few deals around the deadline...maybe ship Tay, CV, and or Gordon somewhere. Beyond that, he doesn't have much.

Gores might not be all that upset. A top 5 pick in a good draft ain't too shabby a way to start of a franchise.

Going into 2012/2013 with 3 elite youngsters along with Stuckey isn't too bad.

Obtaining a solid veteran through Free Agency or via trade should be Dumars' primary objective to land on the roster before the start of next season.

[Money23]

Right now, the only trade that Joe could make that might make a noticeable difference would probably be as a facilitator in a multi-team deal. No one is going to give us Dwight Howard for Tay and Stuckey.

[ghandi]

Originally Posted by Orwellian O.

Dumars will get another year (after this one). This team just doesn't have enough talent at the moment.

But that IS Joe's job.....IF the team doesn't have enough talent then he has failed at getting the talent.......I think at some point his last few seasons will overtake what he did in 2006 and earlier.....Its a what have you done for me lately league and Joe has been about as bad as they come the past 3-4 seasons....

[Stefan S]

Yes but definitely no.

Also, we need to have good luck and then
draft smartly in the upcoming draft.

[whoDean]

Joe will probably get kicked upstairs if Gores wants a new GM.

[Billl]

Joe probably bought himself at least another year with the solid coaching hire. It isn't showing up in the win/loss column yet, but the culture of the team has changed dramatically. The effort is back. The hustle is back. There is still a long way to go, but at least it looks like we are building toward something now.

[rpmfla]

Originally Posted by Billl

Joe probably bought himself at least another year with the solid coaching hire. It isn't showing up in the win/loss column yet, but the culture of the team has changed dramatically. The effort is back. The hustle is back. There is still a long way to go, but at least it looks like we are building toward something now.

I've watched every game this year, and I would agree with you that the culture appears to have changed, but I noticed this faded a bit in the Dallas game. A team can only go so long getting blown out before they begin questioning everything from the coach to their teammates. Frank will have to be a remarkable motivator to keep the effort and intensity level up while they are not even remotely competitive games.