[Big Jerm]

Well, someone had to do it. I've been a huge Joe D. supporter from the start, but these last 2 seasons have been killers. Too many horrible decisions to look past. It's time to go.

[Whiteman]

Being a GM is a performanced based position, a league of "what have you done for me lately".... I'm done.

[Dwight Schrute]

Come back, John Hammond.

[Medz]

I can't wait for the Langlois column explaining why this was the best possible scenario for us, and the subsequent interview with Joe where his hardest hitting question is "how awesome are you?"

[Whiteman]

LOL yeah can't wait either. Im sure the title will be "Grass is greener on the other side"

[diecast75]

rabble rabble rabble

[joe servo]

"I'm not going to make a trade just to make a trade..."

[Billl]

Well, it looks like he tried to trade hamilton and it fell apart. That is disappointing, but at least he seems to have come to grips with his actual trade value.

On prince, I guess I can understand the reasoning of not doing the Dallas deal for prince, but I don't agree with it. Yes, there would have been some guaranteed money on the table for that late first rounder, but that is only a million per year. Even if you don't like anybody at that spot, some will trade you a future first or at least a second.

The part that makes zero sense is saying we could get something for Prince in a sign and trade. What? An expiring contract? A late first rounder? Nobody is giving up lottery picks for him

[whoDean]

Starting with the Chauncey dumping there have been no 100% knockout GM decisions and few enough 50% 'OK' GM decisions.

[GC_STONES]

Between the Chauncey trade and the Rip extension - those are two critical, crippling blunders to the franchise that we still have not recovered from.

The Maxiel contract was absurd as well.

[DYNOMITE]

Welcome all. I hope it wasn't too hard to find.

[B.I.G.]

Dumars will bounce back once he locks up Prince to a lucrative contract and build the pieces around him.

[hack]

Dammit the waiting is killing me -- Rip and Tay have been stale here for longer than most players have NBA careers -- but I'm not getting to this point until Joe does this same shit under the new owner. But for those of you that want to get the ball rolling, who should Joe be replaced with? Who will do better?

[Big Jerm]

Originally Posted by Billl

Well, it looks like he tried to trade hamilton and it fell apart. That is disappointing, but at least he seems to have come to grips with his actual trade value.

On prince, I guess I can understand the reasoning of not doing the Dallas deal for prince, but I don't agree with it. Yes, there would have been some guaranteed money on the table for that late first rounder, but that is only a million per year. Even if you don't like anybody at that spot, some will trade you a future first or at least a second.

The part that makes zero sense is saying we could get something for Prince in a sign and trade. What? An expiring contract? A late first rounder? Nobody is giving up lottery picks for him

While Hamilton himself ruined the proposed Cleveland deal, Joe is the one who signed him to that ungodly extension in the first place, so the blame still should fall squarely on him. Hamilton is disgruntled, declining, and untradeable.

Declining the Prince trade is beyond stupid. We trade one expiring for another, add no salary for the rest of this season, and clear up playing time for our youngsters. Oh yeah, and we also get an additional first rounder, which gives us a shot at more young talent, which this team needs a fuck of a lot more than a bloated contract offer to our disgruntled anorexic small forward.

[Big Jerm]

Originally Posted by hack

Dammit the waiting is killing me -- Rip and Tay have been stale here for longer than most players have NBA careers -- but I'm not getting to this point until Joe does this same shit under the new owner. But for those of you that want to get the ball rolling, who should Joe be replaced with? Who will do better?

A valid question. I'd have to look and see who is available. What we need is someone who can come in and objectively evaluate our roster. Joe has obviously lost the ability to do so.

[Dwight Schrute]

Originally Posted by hack

Dammit the waiting is killing me -- Rip and Tay have been stale here for longer than most players have NBA careers -- but I'm not getting to this point until Joe does this same shit under the new owner. But for those of you that want to get the ball rolling, who should Joe be replaced with? Who will do better?

You, for one.

[DYNOMITE]

Originally Posted by hack

Dammit the waiting is killing me -- Rip and Tay have been stale here for longer than most players have NBA careers -- but I'm not getting to this point until Joe does this same shit under the new owner. But for those of you that want to get the ball rolling, who should Joe be replaced with? Who will do better?

There has to be a young exec somewhere that deserves a chance. I don't think the pool should be open only to people that have already held the title with a team. I would ask Ken Holland who he recommends. Seriously, I would. We need a guy who can come up with and execute a plan and/or system for evaluating talent. If a good GM surrounds himself with good scouts, finance people, etc, etc, he doesn't have to start off being personally aware of each and every player's abilities.

[Big Jerm]

Originally Posted by DYNOMITE

There has to be a young exec somewhere that deserves a chance. I don't think the pool should be open only to people that have already held the title with a team. I would ask Ken Holland who he recommends. Seriously, I would. We need a guy who can come up with and execute a plan and/or system for evaluating talent. If a good GM surrounds himself with good scouts, finance people, etc, etc, he doesn't have to start off being personally aware of each and every player's abilities.

Our current GM isn't aware of each player on HIS OWN TEAM'S abilities. I agree, we shouldn't limit our options to extremely experienced GM's at this point. Someone young, smart, and hungry works.

[jbill]

Joe:

-Kept Rasheed too long
-Panicked with the cap space of 2009
-Gave unnecessarily large extensions to Max & Rip...Was anyone else going to give them that in Free agency?
-Tried to shoehorn Stuckey into a PG position he's not wired for.
-Gave away a quality 2guard in Afflalo for nothing
-Screwed up the #2 pick in the most talented draft of the decade. (That was long ago, but that's what we're paying for most right now)
-Watched idly (no moves) over the last 18 months as the team has played a collective 45 games under .500 in a season and a half.
-Hired two unfit coaching staffs for the collection of players he assembled.

Thanks for the 04 season, Joe. It was magical ride during some very formative years in my life. But your time here needs to be done yesterday.

[Big Jerm]

Originally Posted by jbill

Joe:

-Kept Rasheed too long
-Panicked with the cap space of 2009
-Gave unnecessarily large extensions to Max & Rip...Was anyone else going to give them that in Free agency?
-Tried to shoehorn Stuckey into a PG position he's not wired for.
-Gave away a quality 2guard in Afflalo for nothing
-Screwed up the #2 pick in the most talented draft of the decade. (That was long ago, but that's what we're paying for most right now)
-Watched idly (no moves) over the last 18 months as the team has played a collective 45 games under .500 in a season and a half.
-Hired two unfit coaching staffs for the collection of players he assembled.

Thanks for the 04 season, Joe. It was magical ride during some very formative years in my life. But your time here needs to be done yesterday.

Sadly, you forgot to mention the Billups/Iverson trade, which would make the list even worse to read for Pistons fans.

[hack]

Agreed on finding the next young guy -- I certainly wasn't suggesting we go get Jerry West, which didn't work out for the Grizz anyways. Reality is, no matter how good a GM, there aren't very many (if any?) who have won rings building 2 cores in 2 eras. For all we know, however Joe could be that. I don't think we jettison him just because ``surely there's some young smart guy out there''. Plus, as far as I'm concerned the success we've had has been all about Mr. D, and removing what little connection to him the franchise has left sounds like a bad idea.

[Big Jerm]

No, I think we jettison him because he's become clueless about the market value of his players.

[ghandi]

The way he is doing business now it just looks like he is content with being very bad.....He lived through the bad boys holding on to players too long and knows that at some point veterans decline greatly......When your team isn't even winning half its games for 3 years plus you have to start to move the veterans, especially if they have become malcontents......He gives the illusion that no one is offering equal value, but what Idont think he realizes anymore is that the value isnt there.....ITs not like these teams are calling and offering a second round pick for Greg Monroe......Rip needed to be moved the day Gordon was signed and Joe has done nothing since (except bring in another two guard turned PG)......I think we need to stop living in 2004 and just look at what has happened with this franchise and the moves that have been made the past 4 years.....To be honest I'll be shcoked if Gores buys the team and DUmars is the GM the first day of the season next year.

[B.I.G.]

To stand pat in tough times no easier than rolling the dice in good ones
All Quiet

by Keith Langlois, Pistons.com | @KeithLanglois
Related Images


The Pistons held steady amidst this season's trade discussions.
David Liam Kyle/NBAE/Getty Images

Related Articles

• True Blue Pistons

It takes guts to do what Danny Ainge did as the NBA trade deadline approached Thursday. When you have a team everyone considers good enough to win the NBA title as constituted, there is enormous risk in trading a young big man with a well-earned reputation as one of the league’s most rugged interior defenders. That’s what Ainge did in a deal that sent Kendrick Perkins to Oklahoma City for Jeff Green.
It takes guts to do what Joe Dumars did, as well, as that same deadline approached. He stood pat. Not for lack of trying, the Pistons made no moves. And that’s no easier – with trades flying all around the league – when you’re the president of a franchise accustomed to long playoff runs, suddenly staring at the likelihood of a second consecutive season on the postseason sideline, than to roll the dice as Ainge did.
It takes guts to stand pat when there is a public clamor for action, when your team is openly frustrated by its own lack of success, when the losses mount and the unrest among fans still coming to The Palace swells proportionately.
Dumars said when the deadline came and went that there was no favorable deal to be done. Don’t confuse activity with progress. Not every deal produces a clear winner and a clear loser. To be sure, there are deals both sides wind up regretting. If it was a deal that gave him even a 51-49 chance to better the product, he would have done it.
The Pistons didn’t get any better on Thursday, but they didn’t get any worse, either. Look south to Cleveland and consider the Cavs. They made a bold move Wednesday, sending Mo Williams and Jamario Moon to the Clippers for Baron Davis and this year’s No. 1 pick, a certain lottery pick.
My hunch is that an overwhelming number of Pistons fans would have celebrated a similar deal, though the Pistons don’t have similar pieces. The closest thing to it would be Tayshaun Prince (like Moon, an expiring contract, though a considerably better player) and Rodney Stuckey.
But the Cavs now have Baron Davis and all that comes with him: a notoriously bad attitude when mired in a bad situation, and right now nobody’s situation is worse than Cleveland’s; and a contract that calls for him to make about $29 million over the next two seasons. If the lottery pick doesn’t yield a truly productive piece – and there is more skepticism about this draft class than the last several – they’re out more than just what Moon and Williams might have provided.
So go ahead and heap praise on Cavs owner Dan Gilbert for his willingness to spend money by absorbing Baron’s big contract. But a willingness to spend money, if it’s not combined with the self-discipline to spend it wisely, can backfire big-time on teams.
Ask the Knicks, only now digging out from the rubble of trades for the likes of Stephon Marbury. Having Davis on the payroll for the next two years will limit greatly what other moves the Cavs can make. And if the assumption of most proves correct about the new CBA lowering the salary cap, then Davis’ impact on the Cavs’ future flexibility will be even greater.
So, again, don’t confuse activity with progress. Don’t confuse inactivity with disinterest, or timidity, or regression. Not firing your gun today means bullets in the chamber for a time the hunting might prove more favorable.
Joe D’s peers weren’t calling him out of sympathy with his plight. NBA GMs smell blood in the water. They well know the situation with the Pistons – Joe D has said he has “parameters” that he must work within as a result of the pending sale of the franchise – and the calls he took were asking him to accept 50 or 60 cents on the dollar just to wipe a nickel or a dime from his books.The fact the Pistons did nothing further unsettles Pistons Nation. It takes guts to be bold when you’re riding the surf’s crest. It takes just as much fortitude to resist acting from desperation when you’re drifting somewhere below the surface. Struggle too much against the current and you’ll find yourself settled into the muck at the bottom.

[DYNOMITE]

Originally Posted by hack

Agreed on finding the next young guy -- I certainly wasn't suggesting we go get Jerry West, which didn't work out for the Grizz anyways. Reality is, no matter how good a GM, there aren't very many (if any?) who have won rings building 2 cores in 2 eras. For all we know, however Joe could be that. I don't think we jettison him just because ``surely there's some young smart guy out there''. Plus, as far as I'm concerned the success we've had has been all about Mr. D, and removing what little connection to him the franchise has left sounds like a bad idea.

I can only speak for myself, but it isn't just about the moves he has or hasn't made. He started sounding crazy long ago. Even when he should be doing damage control his explanations are/have been pathetic. He rarely sounds like someone who has a plan. He is often defensive. And let us not ever forget about hiring Curry. That was on him alone and it was a big one.

[B.I.G.]

LOL. This guy is funny.

[Jeff Hause]

Originally Posted by B.I.G.

It takes guts to do what Danny Ainge did as the NBA trade deadline approached Thursday. When you have a team everyone considers good enough to win the NBA title as constituted, there is enormous risk in trading a young big man with a well-earned reputation as one of the league’s most rugged interior defenders. That’s what Ainge did in a deal that sent Kendrick Perkins to Oklahoma City for Jeff Green...

I watched the Celtics play the Warriors this week and they still look like a championship team--they have an answer for EVERYTHING. But they clearly weren't happy with Perkins. Plus the refs hate him--Rasheed ruined Perkins. He's the whiniest player in the NBA now.

[Dwight Schrute]

Langlois needs to come up for air at some point.

[hack]

Originally Posted by Big Jerm

No, I think we jettison him because he's become clueless about the market value of his players.

Had he extended Stuckey already I'd agree, but that one makes me think it might just be that he overvalues his championship core guys.

[alias gym rat]

The sky is falling, the sky is falling....

[Big Jerm]

Originally Posted by hack

Had he extended Stuckey already I'd agree, but that one makes me think it might just be that he overvalues his championship core guys.

Who's to say that the only reason he hasn't extended Stuckey yet is because he can't until the new owner arrives?

[Big Jerm]

Originally Posted by alias gym rat

The sky is falling, the sky is falling....

In case you hadn't noticed, the sky is resting comfortably on the ground already.

[hack]

LOL. Could be re waiting for the extension, certainly could be.

[RodimusPrime]

"We're gonna need a bigger bandwagon."

[Joe_Loco]

What worries me isn't what worries a lot of you. I think Joe can do the job, and any laundry list of bad moves without a corresponding list of good ones is short-sighted at best and chickenshit at worst. This guy put together an NBA championship from nothing, in a way that is virtually unmatched in history. He didn't luck into it. Joe D. bucked too many league trends to do that.

But he also didn't get it by being gun-shy. Reclusive. Or tolerant of failure.

So I worry about his emotional commitment to a team not owned by Bill Davidson. Frankly I suspect he feels a little betrayed himself about the failure to honor Mr. D's wishes. But at some point he needs to show he still wants this job. And if he doesn't, I trust him to step aside once the deal is finished.

[The King]

Dumars is a fat turd that won't flush.

Bad decision after bad decision. We could have gotten a 1st rounder for flipping Tay's whiney ass for Butler's expiring corpse? Wasted opportunity.

So he kept the expiring SF even though Daye could slide right into SF? This jackass has no plan and no brain. He's eaten himself out of the league.

[B.I.G.]

Too much sugar in a krispy kreme donuts causes you not to think clearly.

[B.I.G.]

Knicks owe a thank you to Joe Dumars for landing Melo
by: Matt Shetler

While New York Knicks fans everywhere are celebrating the fact that forward Carmelo Anthony will make his New York Knicks debut tonight, one man has to cringe at the excitement Anthony is about to create in New York.
No, that man doesn’t reside in the city of Denver.
Not even close, he’s from Detroit as a matter of fact and his name is Joe Dumars.
Because of Dumars, there is no guarantee that Spike Lee and the rest of the New York faithful would be welcoming Anthony aboard.
It was June 26, 2003 when Dumars, the general manager of the Detroit Pistons, decided to draft a project in Darko Milicic with the second overall pick instead of Anthony, whom everyone had already anointed as the second best player in the draft (LeBron James went first overall to the Cleveland Cavaliers).
To Dumars defense, the Pistons were coming off a loss in the Eastern Conference Finals that year and won the title the following season.
Looking back though, the Pistons have since fallen on hard times, mostly because of bad personnel moves from Dumars. That all began with him passing on Anthony.
Had Dumars drafted Anthony, who knows how things would have played out? Detroit likely could still be a team at or near the top of the standings and Melo very likely isn’t headed to Madison Square Garden as a member of the Knicks.
It goes to show how one bad decision can have a snowball effect for years to come.
Knicks fans know all about that though, having to suffer through the Isiah Thomas years.
In the case of both Dumars and Thomas, one man’s foolish decision has turned into a pot of gold for another team.
The Knicks owe a big thank you to Dumars.
For once, the Knicks were on the right side of the rainbow.

Knicks owe a thank you to Joe Dumars for landing Melo | Sports, Culture, Music, Sports News, Rumors, Highlights, Video, And More -- Sports Haze

[B.I.G.]

No way out for Pistons Hamilton and Prince

The NBA trade deadline passed and Joe Dumars didn't make a move, or couldn't make a move, and finally, we have the lasting lesson of the Pistons' decline: If you're gonna clean house, you'd better clean the whole darn house.
Dumars recognized when the Pistons' lavish run was ending, after six straight Eastern Conference Finals appearances. He admitted it when he traded Chauncey Billups for soon-to-be-free agent Allen Iverson in 2008. Rasheed Wallace was gone too, and so was Antonio McDyess.
A rebuild was understandable after so much success, but Dumars tried to stay competitive on the fly, or on the sly. He went halfway, rather than tearing it down. He gave Richard Hamilton an overly extravagant $34-million extension shortly after dealing Billups, and if it was a placating move, it backfired and created an untradeable albatross.
Which brings us to now, with Hamilton pouting, declining to have his contract bought out in a deal with Cleveland. And you have Tayshaun Prince in the final year of his contract, playing out the string here.
It's too bad, and perhaps it was unavoidable. Did Dumars wait too long to blow it up? Well, you can say that now. He also might have done it too soon.
Once he decided to deal Billups to free salary-cap space for the following summer, he needed to recognize it could decimate the team. In retrospect, when he traded Billups, he should have made sure he could move Hamilton and maybe Prince too. If not, he should've kept Billups and ridden the aging one-time champs for another year.
The salary-cap room was used to sign Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva, whose roles have been limited by the presence of Hamilton and Prince, an error that recycled into another error. Now, Hamilton and Prince likely will be gone after the season, their very good Pistons careers ended too late or too soon, but messier than they could have been.
Bob.wojnowski@detnews.com

DETNEWS | Weblogs | Wojo's Blog

[hack]

We should only be so lucky to move Rip in the offseason.

[Big Jerm]

Originally Posted by The King

Dumars is a fat turd that won't flush.

Bad decision after bad decision. We could have gotten a 1st rounder for flipping Tay's whiney ass for Butler's expiring corpse? Wasted opportunity.

So he kept the expiring SF even though Daye could slide right into SF? This jackass has no plan and no brain. He's eaten himself out of the league.

ROFL at eating himself out of the league.

[Mel Kiper Jr]

Hmmm...A risky move like Danny Ainge made is hard to do. He took the best team in the East and made some roster changes.

When you are a bad team, no move is the worst move. If we trade a player, we either get better in the trade, or we get worse and improve our draft pick. Either way we win.

Instead, we are stuck most likely with a draft pick that won't be high enough to get a star. We are basically in rebuilding purgatory.

Originally Posted by B.I.G.

To stand pat in tough times no easier than rolling the dice in good ones
All Quiet

by Keith Langlois, Pistons.com | @KeithLanglois
Related Images


The Pistons held steady amidst this season's trade discussions.
David Liam Kyle/NBAE/Getty Images

Related Articles

• True Blue Pistons

It takes guts to do what Danny Ainge did as the NBA trade deadline approached Thursday. When you have a team everyone considers good enough to win the NBA title as constituted, there is enormous risk in trading a young big man with a well-earned reputation as one of the league’s most rugged interior defenders. That’s what Ainge did in a deal that sent Kendrick Perkins to Oklahoma City for Jeff Green.
It takes guts to do what Joe Dumars did, as well, as that same deadline approached. He stood pat. Not for lack of trying, the Pistons made no moves. And that’s no easier – with trades flying all around the league – when you’re the president of a franchise accustomed to long playoff runs, suddenly staring at the likelihood of a second consecutive season on the postseason sideline, than to roll the dice as Ainge did.
It takes guts to stand pat when there is a public clamor for action, when your team is openly frustrated by its own lack of success, when the losses mount and the unrest among fans still coming to The Palace swells proportionately.
Dumars said when the deadline came and went that there was no favorable deal to be done. Don’t confuse activity with progress. Not every deal produces a clear winner and a clear loser. To be sure, there are deals both sides wind up regretting. If it was a deal that gave him even a 51-49 chance to better the product, he would have done it.
The Pistons didn’t get any better on Thursday, but they didn’t get any worse, either. Look south to Cleveland and consider the Cavs. They made a bold move Wednesday, sending Mo Williams and Jamario Moon to the Clippers for Baron Davis and this year’s No. 1 pick, a certain lottery pick.
My hunch is that an overwhelming number of Pistons fans would have celebrated a similar deal, though the Pistons don’t have similar pieces. The closest thing to it would be Tayshaun Prince (like Moon, an expiring contract, though a considerably better player) and Rodney Stuckey.
But the Cavs now have Baron Davis and all that comes with him: a notoriously bad attitude when mired in a bad situation, and right now nobody’s situation is worse than Cleveland’s; and a contract that calls for him to make about $29 million over the next two seasons. If the lottery pick doesn’t yield a truly productive piece – and there is more skepticism about this draft class than the last several – they’re out more than just what Moon and Williams might have provided.
So go ahead and heap praise on Cavs owner Dan Gilbert for his willingness to spend money by absorbing Baron’s big contract. But a willingness to spend money, if it’s not combined with the self-discipline to spend it wisely, can backfire big-time on teams.
Ask the Knicks, only now digging out from the rubble of trades for the likes of Stephon Marbury. Having Davis on the payroll for the next two years will limit greatly what other moves the Cavs can make. And if the assumption of most proves correct about the new CBA lowering the salary cap, then Davis’ impact on the Cavs’ future flexibility will be even greater.
So, again, don’t confuse activity with progress. Don’t confuse inactivity with disinterest, or timidity, or regression. Not firing your gun today means bullets in the chamber for a time the hunting might prove more favorable.
Joe D’s peers weren’t calling him out of sympathy with his plight. NBA GMs smell blood in the water. They well know the situation with the Pistons – Joe D has said he has “parameters” that he must work within as a result of the pending sale of the franchise – and the calls he took were asking him to accept 50 or 60 cents on the dollar just to wipe a nickel or a dime from his books.The fact the Pistons did nothing further unsettles Pistons Nation. It takes guts to be bold when you’re riding the surf’s crest. It takes just as much fortitude to resist acting from desperation when you’re drifting somewhere below the surface. Struggle too much against the current and you’ll find yourself settled into the muck at the bottom.

[B.I.G.]

Who in the 2011 draft is a sure thing superstar?

[Stefan S]

This dude is impossible to read. I stopped in the middle of the second paragraph.

If there really was an offer of expiring + 1st round pic for Tay and Joe Dumars did not pull the trigger then:
a) he is a complete idiot;
b) KD prohibited this move because it adds to the expenditures;
c) both a) and b)
d) all of the above.

[Orwellian O.]

Didn't Mrs. D already decline a good trade for Hamilton last year? I don't think Joe D. is much to blame for the inactivity.

I also don't blame him for the play of Hamilton and Prince or the death of Mr. D. Hamilton was worth that contract at the time...

[Mainevent]

b) KD prohibited this move because it adds to the expenditures

How? Late first round picks are eminently tradable. You could also pick a foreign player and stash them for a few years if you don't want to pay the salary.

[Stefan S]

Originally Posted by Mainevent

How? Late first round picks are eminently tradable. You could also pick a foreign player and stash them for a few years if you don't want to pay the salary.

She is the scrooge 2.0 with no interest and no ability to run company like the Pistons.
She does not understand the idea that sometimes you have to invest a little bit to generate serious profit (who knows, maybe she even is a member of TEA party and think Obama is a Muslim).
She does not even want to pay 1 extra million for that pic (that she could recuperate from the tickets if the team played better).
She is that stupid.

In other words, the moves recently not made are so stupid that no one with any sense of basketball would make them (like Tay for expiring and a pic). So, it is just unimaginable that Dumars controlled the strings.

Of course, it also can be that I am totally tripping and all of the above is a wild speculation by a hater coming from a left field and maybe even a deep end.

[DYNOMITE]

Dumars has been making these stupid moves long before Mr D passed away. Not only the moves but the explanation for them or lack of them from Joe's own mouth. Quit making excuses for him. He is a grown man in a job that deserves the heat from the fans. Joe has publicly made statements before that suggests he overvalues his own players. If fact he has been pretty consistent with that.

[hack]

I don't think it's reasonable to fire Joe b/c he says silly things to reporters. Public figures do that all the time.

[Big Jerm]

Originally Posted by Orwellian O.

Didn't Mrs. D already decline a good trade for Hamilton last year? I don't think Joe D. is much to blame for the inactivity.

I also don't blame him for the play of Hamilton and Prince or the death of Mr. D. Hamilton was worth that contract at the time...

Totally disagree that Hamilton was worth that contract. The amount of salary and years were significantly above his market value, and now he's a cap slug that can't be traded because of his salary and can't crack the rotation because he's too busy pouting. I appreciate Joe's loyalty to his players, but when he vastly overpays(Rip) or refuses to move on(Tay), it's time for a new regime.