[detroitsportsfan]

Jahvid Best (concussion) & Mikel LeShoure (achilles) are not definites to be 100% going into next season. (If they are, they might be the answer to our underperforming running game.) Is the Keiland Williams experiment over??? He was a big back brought in with some promise (not used much however). What about the recent signing of Joique Bell (Wayne State...signed late, saw no action with the Lions)??? Is he better than Kevin Smith??? Is Jerome Harrison still on the roster or is he a free agent??? (He might even retire given his condition.) What about Maurice Morris??? He seemed to play less and less as the season wore on. The feeling here is the Lions are going to go in a different direction and let Morris go.

Bottom Line: The running game was almost non-existent at times this season (the Lions ranked among the worst teams in rushing yards this season) but improvement could possibly come from within (ie. Best, LeShoure, Bell). These are still unknowns at this time. In recent years, the Lions have drafted best player available, regardless of position. Should the Lions take a running back in the 1st or 2nd rounds or is there greater positional needs (ie. offensive line, secondary) that they should address first???

[hack]

Well considering the team they just played never punted...

Re King's comments, I understand why they're killing the game -- better than killing the people who play it. But this isn't football. I hate the track-meet shit and I hate the difficulty in reffing it. They can't get their friggin rules straight. If the game requires an exceptional amount of skill by the refs than they need to hire guys full time to do that job.

[Kstat]

That game had a little to do with the new rules, but more to do with the fact the lions couldn't tackle, couldn't cover anybody, and couldn't make plays on the ball.

Drew Brees threw 4-5 awful passes Saturday night that should have been picked off. Aaron Berry dropped two that were flat out embarrassing.

New rules or not, if the Lions have better defensive backs, they have a good shot at winning that game.

[hack]

No question about it -- catch those potential interceptions and it's different. Then again, if that hands-to-face call wasn't made, that would have impacted the game too. I don't see the point of claiming one of many moving parts was the most important when, in the end, you can't actually know. It's anybody's best guess what happens if that call isn't made, if Suh isn't the league's reluctant anti-hero, if the spotting issues weren't so obvious, etc. In the end, I'm just saying that the sport has a problem and that it was on display in our game. In the NFL the game has evolved thanks to rules changes, and I suspect it's time to shift the balance a bit more. Maybe in exchange for keeping WRs and QBs safe there should be a tightening of standards on things like pass interference, holding calls, etc.

But, no matter what, it's time to improve reffing across all sports. Make them full-time employees, pay them very well, and track performance. Retaining credibility is worth it. The sports are already paying them decent money, but the transparency and accountability just isn't there. If I could access enough NBA players, I would pitch them on an accountability project -- give me the money to organize a few pairs of eyes per game to track a whole bunch of data, and tell me what things we should track -- who blows the whistle on who, the timing of calls, etc. Collect that for a season and start making observations, and that would be a very powerful thing to have as well as a check on the power of the league and commissioner.

[ghandi]

Originally Posted by Kstat

That game had a little to do with the new rules, but more to do with the fact the lions couldn't tackle, couldn't cover anybody, and couldn't make plays on the ball.

Drew Brees threw 4-5 awful passes Saturday night that should have been picked off. Aaron Berry dropped two that were flat out embarrassing.

New rules or not, if the Lions have better defensive backs, they have a good shot at winning that game.

Was watching the Giants-Falcons game and the one thing that stuck out was how few tackles the Giants missed....Even when they had one on one matchups with the corners against White or Julio they brought them down immediately every time.

[hack]

Yeah, that's another one. Make your freakin tackles and no INTs needed.

[Kstat]

Originally Posted by hack

Yeah, that's another one. Make your freakin tackles and no INTs needed.

Yes and no.

the book on the Lions DBs is that they can run but don't play the ball for shit...so QBs just throw jump balls deep in 1-on-1 coverage.

The way teams were playing the Lions, they absolutely needed some interceptions.

[hack]

So even if the Saints RBs went down on first contact every time, you think that would not have changed anything!

[ghandi]

Originally Posted by Kstat

Yes and no.

the book on the Lions DBs is that they can run but don't play the ball for shit...so QBs just throw jump balls deep in 1-on-1 coverage.

The way teams were playing the Lions, they absolutely needed some interceptions.

They didnt get beat deep alot though until the last week of the season and the playoffs....That probably had more to do with the front 4 getting pressure than with the quality of the DBs.....

[ghandi]

Originally Posted by hack

So even if the Saints RBs went down on first contact every time, you think that would not have changed anything!

More than likely it probably would have just given the Saints more plays....Instead of getting the 12 yard broken tackle run it would have been a 5 yard run....The Saints probably still get the first downs and dont punt.

[Whiteman]

It was sickening to watch the saints get first down after first down and even when we had them on 4th down on their own 40 they went for it KNOWING we cant stop them. Their coach is an asshole for that but hey I dont blame him.

There was a point where the refs did screw up on that fumble. that would have put us up 21-7 but Im sure we still lose based off of the non tackling and interception drops.

Our defensive line is overated btw. I dont want to hear one thing about the dline. OVERRATED!

[detroitsportsfan]

The D-Line is pretty young overall. They seemed to regress as the season progressed but I still like their upside. Ndamukong Suh didn't have as good a season this year as he did his rookie year but he still has the "right stuff" to get better. Nick Fairley, although injured in preseason and a good portion of the regular season, showed some stuff. I think Fairley will be starting at defensive tackle pretty soon. Cliff Avril had his best year yet and as an unrestricted free agent, will be coveted amongst other NFL teams. The Lions want him back and it seems like Avril wants to come back but at what price??? Kyle Vanden Bosch may have slowed a bit (I believe he's in his early thirties) but he's still hungry and a good leader and is still productive. I expect a couple of more productive years out of him. Sammie Hill came on towards the end of the season. He's a project (coming out of a smaller school) who's starting to show something. Corey Williams, if somewhat unspectacular, is pretty solid at defensive tackle. Like Bosch, he's getting a bit older and I'm not sure what the Lions plans are for him. Also, Fairley will push for his starting job. In limited minutes, Willie Young and Lawrence Jackson impressed. Both are pass rush specialists who have a knack at getting to the quarterback. Andre Fluellen is a versatile player who can play both tackle and end but saw his role reduced this season because the Lions upgraded the talent around him. I believe he's an unrestricted free agent now. Don't know if the Lions will bring him back.

Overall, the D-Line has very good depth (the most depth on the team and possible the league) but did not always play consistent. The lack of a solid run defense is most notable. I have to think it's more of a matter of schemes than talent. I still think Gunther Cunningham is the right defensive coordinator for the team but he needs to be more flexible with his schemes.

[hack]

I wouldn't overpay for Avril. If Suh and hopefully Fairley can't make mediocre DEs look great than something's wrong here. That money should probably go to a CB or two.

[Whiteman]

You gotta keep Avril. Hell, he made two plays this year that gave us a win we should have lost. (Minny, to say the least)

We need a feared defensive end like Ware, Peppers, Allen etc

[Whiteman]

I agree above this whole draft needs to go to defense.

[RugbyPike#11]

Except for DT, the Lions could upgrade any position. Obviously secondary is the weakest unit, but if you can get an underrated stud like Melvin Ingram in the second round, you can get your replacement for aging Vanden Bosh. Levy and Durant are okay, but you can upgrade either of those positions. I really like Tulloch, but if he wants too much money and you can get a top-notch MLB who is better in coverage, you can let Tulloch walk and use that money to upgrade the O-Line or secondary.

On offense, they need running backs as it's doubtful that Leshoure will be 100% unless his achilles was only a partial tear. Best and Smith are both unreliable. They also need to get some guys who can be run blockers on the O-Line.

In addition to the wide 9 front, I'd like to see us put out a 4-3 under package to help us stop the run. Put Avril at WDE, Sammie Lee Hill/Corey Smith at NT, Suh at DT, and Fairley at SDE.

If Manny Lawson can be had at the right price, I think he would be an upgrade over Durant at SLB, especially holding the edge as a SLB in a 4-3 under scheme. I think a lot of guys like Tulloch signed one-year deals after the lockout. Hopefully we can get some nice young talents who want to be a part of a team on the rise.

[hack]

I've a lot less objection to a DE in the draft than spending money on veterans. Young talent costs less.

[hack]

BTW, who drew the most 15-yard flags this year? In the games I saw Avril was guilty of them a lot. That sorta thing has to stop.

[Kstat]

I'm ok with letting both Avril and KVB go. We can spend that money better elsewhere.

[ghandi]

Maybe Suh should drop 20 more pounds and move to end...It would be harder to double team him there and the Lions could find more of a run stopping DT....

[RugbyPike#11]

I don't mind playing Suh at DE on occasion, but the guy is pretty solid at his weight. He's not going to get much lighter unless he starts losing muscle, and you don't want him to give up his strength. Fairley or Suh can both slide out to DE as part of the rotation, but you don't want either of those guys playing DE in the wide 9. We need to show some different looks in our front to get better at stopping the run. Some more standard 4-3, 4-3 under, 3-4 with Suh and Fairley at DE.

[detroitsportsfan]

The D-Coordinator needs to change schemes on the fly. The run defense shouldn't be as poor as it is with the talent that resides on the D-Line.

[RugbyPike#11]

That Jimmy Graham TD is why i want Manny Lawson. We are going to need a guy to cover the Jimmy Graham, Vernon Davis, and Jermichael Finleyss of the wotld.

[Dave Bing]

This is a hell of a fun game. But kinda silly. There is just no defense in the NFL anymore.

[ghandi]

Originally Posted by RugbyPike#11

That Jimmy Graham TD is why i want Manny Lawson. We are going to need a guy to cover the Jimmy Graham, Vernon Davis, and Jermichael Finleyss of the wotld.

Its getting to the point where almost every team has an athletic, 6'6" TE that runs as well as the WRs.....With the rules in place you just cant cover these guys.

[hack]

Agree with Bing. It's no fun with defenses playing the role of the Washington Generals.

[RugbyPike#11]

Avril has gotten the franchise tag. I'm assuming the Lions will trad him or he'll be signed to a longer term deal. I like, but don't love Avril. I think he's good, but not great. Not worth the money he's seeking.

[ThaMaestro]

He's good and benefited a lot from the other players on the D-line. I think he's an important piece to the defense. I hope that signing him doesn't mean we lose Tulloch. Tulloch didn't have his best season, but he'd be hard to replace.

[The King]

Keeping Avril was smart. He makes A LOT of impact plays off the edge. Young pass rushers don't grow on trees. I like Tulloch, but he's not much of an impact guy. He's a hard helmet guy who goes out and makes tackles and does the dirty work, but he doesn't change games. I like Tulloch a lot, but Avril is clearly the guy to keep. We can always move Levy back inside, where he excelled two years ago.

[detroitsportsfan]

Both Lawrence Jackson & Willie Young are pretty good pass rushers as well. They may not be as "complete" as Cliff Avril is but they're impactful as part-timers and may be ready for an increased role. There's more depth on the defensive line than anywhere else on the Lions. I'm glad that the Lions "franchised" Avril but with all that depth on the d-line, I'm not sure they would've missed a beat in his absence.

Tulloch played better as the season went along. He's a "custom fit" for the Lions defense at middle linebacker. Levy played well at that position but I don't think he had quite the same impact as Tulloch. Losing Tulloch would be a great loss for Detroit. They can more afford to lose Levy as an outside linebacker and fill his shoes either through the draft or free agency.

[papalawrence]

Megatron signs richest deal ever for WR -- 8 yrs up to 132 million. Very happy he's in for the long run.

[Kstat]

only in the NFL can you sign a guy for $132 million and actually shave $9 million off your salary cap...

[detroitsportsfan]

Crazy money but it was absolutely necessary for the Lions to resign him if they're serious about becoming Super Bowl contenders.

[Jangul]

Originally Posted by Kstat

only in the NFL can you sign a guy for $132 million and actually shave $9 million off your salary cap...

Of course those contracts are barely worth the paper they're printed on since usually only half the money is guaranteed and players are usually waived or asked to restructure well before they make it half way through a deal.

I'm waiting for a franchise to sign a 50 year, 5 billion dollar deal and then waive the guy a month later with a total payout of 1/100,000th of the advertised value just to emphasize how ridiculous the NFL "record contract" announcement actually is.

[detroitsportsfan]

Wow! The NFL really coming down on the Saints:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...P11_hot_topics

[ThaMaestro]

Goodell came and bitch slapped the hell out the Saints. The league has been taking a strong stance on player safety for the last several years. If NO ignored some warnings and didn't cooperate than I guess they deserve a harsh punishment. Sean Peyton is losing like $7.5 mil in salary, though. That seems extra harsh.

I wonder if this has less to do with player safety than it does with Goodell's ego.

[Dave Bing]

No league is more tightly self-regulated than the NFL. And no league works on image. Hell, the wrong sock-length costs you 20 grand. He definitely laid the hammer down. Shame that the draft picks really punish Saints fans who were innocent in this whole situation.

But it will be interesting to see which other teams had similar programs. Heard whispers about the Skins as well. I wonder if there will actually be a broader investigation.

[hack]

I support it. The NFL has a serious existential problem on its hands with the injury/concussion issue.

[Dave Bing]

We only love the sport because we don't have to confront the results of the mayhem. Those don't show up until years later and by then... out of sight, out of mind.

[hack]

The evolution of the sport has me loving it less. Tweaks are necessary to let defenses catch up a little. More holding penalties isn't something you rally around, but maybe let DB's be more physical at the line or make pass interference a much harder flag to throw.

[El Axe]

Remember when Boxing was probably the #1 sport, the heyday of M Ali?

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out long term in schools as more parents get concerned about long-term injury to their children. State high school athletic associations are going all-out in concussion education lately.

[Dave Bing]

Thought that this was really interesting. All-time great Lem Barney regrets his career because of concussions. So many stories feed us the reassuring narrative that these warriors would do it all again for the glory of the sport. I would bet that there are hundreds who feel like Barney does.

Concussions make Lions great Lem Barney wish he never played | Detroit Free Press | freep.com

[papalawrence]

Originally Posted by Dave Bing

Thought that this was really interesting. All-time great Lem Barney regrets his career because of concussions. So many stories feed us the reassuring narrative that these warriors would do it all again for the glory of the sport. I would bet that there are hundreds who feel like Barney does.

Concussions make Lions great Lem Barney wish he never played | Detroit Free Press | freep.com

I posted that article on another board where most of the guys rant that the NFL is becoming pussified. I'm glad those in charge are taking appropriate steps to make things more safe.

[RugbyPike#11]

The draft is starting in about a week!

Although much improved, the Lions still need a lot of depth across the board. With Avril holding out and Vanden Bosch getting old, I wouldn't be shocked to see an early selection at DE.

I really want to see some selections at OL and DB. I wouldn't be surprised if a 1st round talent like Janoris Jenkins tumbles into the 2nd or even 3rd round. I'm also intrigued by the measurables of Brandon Hardin, who is about 6-3 220. He was a CB at Oregon State, but has the size to slide over to safety in the NFL. When you're looking for somebody to cover the elite tight ends in the NFL, this is the kind of guy you might be able use. Hardin missed his senior year with a shoulder injury, so despite his awesome measurables, he projects as more of a 3rd-4th round guy.

It sounds like Junior Hemingway is a prospect on the rise. He doesn't have ideal speed, but he is a big solid wide receiver who could play a role as a sort of poor man's Marques Colston.

Ryan Van Bergen will probably be a late round pick. He can probably play anywhere on the line in a 4-3 (not a DE in the wide 9 variant) or be a solid DE in a 3-4. Ideally, I think he's a SDE in a 4-3 under type scheme.

Mike Martin and David Molk are also likely to get drafted, possibly as early as the 2nd round but more likely in the 3-4 round.

[Whiteman]

Were also linked to Doug Martin. Our running back situation is the jack of all trades lol. The defense never knows who to prepare for with our running backs. Would love to see us trade for Forte but dont have the cash nor would the bears ever trade him to a divisional rival.

[RugbyPike#11]

Reilly Reiff unexpectedly fell to the Lions at the #23. I think he was their best player available at a big position of need. He probably has the versatility to play either tackle or guard, so even if he doesn't beat out Backus, he still has a good chance to start assuming he's better than Cherilus or Peterman.

I liked Guard David DeCastro who went to the Steelers at the next pick. The last time I remember the Steelers taking a guy I really wanted one pick after the Lions, they got LaMarr Woodley and we got Drew Stanton. Even though I preferred DeCastro, I like the Reiff pick, I and predict that Reiff will have a much better Lions career than Stanton.

Lions pick Riley Reiff is good insurance for Mayhew's previous investment | The Detroit News | detroitnews.com

[El Axe]

I heard on the radio that Reiff was #10 on Kiper's big board. Every mock draft had him picked in the top 15. Consensus #2 OL in the draft.

Lions had the oldest OL in the league last year. Complete no-brainer pick, IMO. When he and DeCastro got past #20, I was pretty stoked, and I'll trust Mayhew on his choice of the two.

Ferentz is noted for being a great OL coach and Reiff replaced Bulaga (one of the top OL in the league who also fell on draft day) and is given much the same consideration. As RugbyPike points out, Reiff played every position on the line, so he can immediately start or, at worst, fill in anywhere. Should at least be a run blocking upgrade.

Personally, I like the idea of picking up the player who falls down draft boards for no real reason. Using an NBA analogy, Paul Pierce and Danny Granger were two players who also mysteriously fell.

[The King]

We are a passing team, so you go with the tackle.

Pitt is a running team, so they went with a G.

That's what should happen. I loved the pick. FINALLY an OL in the draft. Great pick. I want more OL or CB in the 2/3 round, but you never know with Mayhew. He seems to take BPA. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[Whiteman]

Excellent pick. Lets not forget Stafford is the Franchise. So go and protect the Franchise. Also could not believe how many times it was 3rd and short and we did a running back sweep because of no push up the middle. Well if what they say is true he can play anywhere and has the talent, thats an upgrade in my book. I'd like to see Cherilius play well and have Reiff play at guard for a push up the middle.

While were at it lets go and keep adding to the line. Lots of talent left out there with Konz, Adams, etc.

[Whiteman]

Lmao so i guess 5,000 yards thrown is not enough for martin mayhew.

Welcome to the greatest show on turf squared!

Ryan broyles?