The 2011 NBA FINALS- Cosmic Slams or Comic Sans? - Page 3

Jeff Hause · 06-01-2011, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hack

1. B/c Lebron was available and Howard isn't.

2. Agreed that in the context of other superstar trades, Wade is too much to give up. But when the reward is to have the league's best interior and perimeter players on the same team, and with the big man having a ton less mileage, you do it. You've suddenly got a window that's another 6/7 years open, not 3-5. If I'm Riley I overpay for Howard in that way in a heartbeat. I see your point about Bosh, and I might try that first, but I doubt Orlando wants Bosh unless they are in a position to add another max guy at the same time. Nobody wants Bosh at the max with nothing around him. We know what that looks like.

Wade's 29. He's not Jason Kidd. He's the reason Lebron went there.

And Miami already has the best defense in the league. What do they need Howard for -- especially if they'd have to lose Wade to get him? So there's a 7' teammate who can't play outside of the paint standing in front of the basket when Lebron tries to drive? Seems like Lebron and Howard would be a lot easier to contain than Lebron and Wade.

All in all, I've got to think Riley's pretty happy with his two superstars right now...

hack · 06-01-2011, 05:51 PM

Of course he's happy with them. Easy to imagine how much happier he'd be if one them were four years younger with no injury history and didn't do basically the same thing as the other one. Riley won with Shaq and Wade, so it's a good bet that he can figure out how to make sure LeBron has lanes open even with Howard on the team.

Jeff Hause · 06-01-2011, 05:57 PM

Well, as long as he's imagining, he can just imagine Howard was an offensive threat -- or just imagine Wade is 7 feet tall.

Poor Pat Riley, up 1-0 in the Finals with Lebron and Wade, muttering "What if...?"

hack · 06-01-2011, 07:07 PM

If the best you can do is exaggerate it into absurdity, maybe try just acknowledging the point for once? Do it privately if you prefer -- for $20 I will sign a non-disclosure agreement.

Jeff Hause · 06-01-2011, 07:34 PM

"Absurdity?" You're speculating that Riley secretly wants to trade Wade for Howard while they're one up in the Finals, to be more "complimentary." For a more aesthetically pleasing Finals Team, I guess...

whoDean · 06-01-2011, 07:37 PM

LOL, I guess The Heat will go down as the LEAST aesthetically pleasing Champ in NBA history.

hack · 06-01-2011, 07:39 PM

Of course it's absurd to want to trade a 29-year-old often injured guard for a 25-year-old who has never been hurt and is the game's best interior player.

Stefan S · 06-01-2011, 07:48 PM

I am not betting against Rick either.

Also, yes, Miami played a great D game (so did Dallas through about 3 1/2 quarters). But, still, it seemed to me like the Heat had tougher O possessions than The Mavs, they were just able to make some of those very difficult shots.

Carlisle was right in that comment quoted above -- lots of time Dallas would make most/more of shots (because many of the looks were good ones). And if they start making them, maybe it will put more pressure on Miami.

King Mob · 06-01-2011, 08:13 PM

Dallas' D looked pretty solid until they inexplicably went away from the zone.

Jeff Hause · 06-01-2011, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hack

Of course it's absurd to want to trade a 29-year-old often injured guard for a 25-year-old who has never been hurt and is the game's best interior player.

Thank God. You finally get it...

Frankly, I don't think Lebron and Howard would have beaten Chicago. Chicago was shut down by Miami's defense -- so Miami didn't need more defense. And having Howard on offense instead of Wade would have freed Chicago to go after Lebron more -- Noah could guard Howard straight up.

Chicago's problem was that they didn't have enough guys to guard Lebron and Wade at the same time...

And by the way, weren't you the guy saying they needed Wade as a closer because Lebron couldn't? Is Howard your closer, now?

hack · 06-01-2011, 09:07 PM

I think there were a lot of people that thought playing with Wade appealed to James so he didn't have to take the tough shots. There was all that Big O talk.

Chicago was shut down by the lack of a second option on offense; not to take anything away from Miami's defense.

I agree that the duplication of resources hasn't hurt Miami yet and may actually help them for now -- until Chicago sorts itself out or if the Lakers manage to make some miraculous talent acquisitions this offseason to get back in the hunt. Stars get tired in the playoffs and Wade and LeBron will keep each other fresh. For now, there's no question this is going to work, even for a guy like Riley who would probably rather have the big guy than 2 swingmen.

I think whether it continues to do so depends on what the next Superfriends team looks like. I don't know that this works against a team built around Paul, Anthony and Howard. There you'd have the one-man defense in Howard and the guy that makes everybody better in Paul, leaving Anthony free to rest on defense and have no responsibility other than to score. That would be a combination with a lot more complementary skills than two swingmen and the league's most expensive jumpshooting bigman. Could be a combo scary enough to Riley that I think he might be tempted to preempt it by sending Wade to Orlando.

Jeff Hause · 06-01-2011, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hack

That would be a combination with a lot more complementary skills than two swingmen and the league's most expensive jumpshooting bigman. Could be combo scary enough to Riley that I think he might be tempted to preempt it by dangling one of his three to Orlando.

Wait, we went from trading Wade for Howard to "dangling one of the big three" -- EVERYBODY agrees he'd trade BOSH for Howard...

hack · 06-01-2011, 09:45 PM

Edited to your satisfaction.

*JD* · 06-01-2011, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Hause

Poor Pat Riley, up 1-0 in the Finals with Lebron and Wade, muttering "What if...?"

That was a good one.

Mainevent · 06-01-2011, 11:38 PM

Tuesday's game had the highest finals opener rating since . . . wait for it . . . . . wait for it . . .

. . . . . since 2004.

hack · 06-02-2011, 07:13 AM

I guess that the casual fan loves defense?

Billl · 06-02-2011, 09:01 AM

Re: Duplication of talents - When the talents you are talking about are incredible perimeter defense, off the charts athleticism, unstoppable 1 on 1 scoring, great passing, solid shooting etc, then it really isn't such a bad thing to duplicate those. The real "mismatch" in the equation is Bosh. He's a great player in his own right, but he is really overshadowed on this team. They didn't need to pay another offensive focal point. Wade and Lebron can get guys open looks and make any decent NBA players into scoring threats.

BTW - I'm not sure Wade/Lebron would have been this good 2-3 years ago. Wade is making about twice as many 3's now and Lebrons game has gotten a lot more balanced. They obviously both still take it to the basket a ton, but they've worked on their j's enough that teams have to play them honest.

hack · 06-02-2011, 09:18 AM

In the end it's sharing the ball versus playing together, but I agree that those two can make it work -- at least until a properly constructed Superfriends team comes along. And over time they may really learn to play together and really complement each other as opposed to just sharing. Still, Riley and probably any other GM in his shoes would trade Wade for Howard if the chance arose (which is unlikely).

Totally agreed about Bosh. You can pay a guy half that much to get boards, set screens and can jumpers.

*JD* · 06-02-2011, 10:17 AM

Don't worry, Hack- Lou was saying the same things at your age when Earl "The Pearl" Monroe joined Walt "Clyde" Frazier in NY.

hack · 06-02-2011, 10:35 AM

It's a string of ifs, but assuming the amnesty and the Knicks are able to drop Stoudamire and add Paul and Howard, we'll have our answer. Or if someone else is able to put together a more traditionally-structured star trio.

*JD* · 06-02-2011, 10:40 AM

Like Monroe, DWFP and Harrison Barnes?

hack · 06-02-2011, 10:44 AM

Was the insinuation that obvious?

*JD* · 06-02-2011, 10:31 PM

I just caught the tail end of the 2nd quarter. After LeBron got his 3rd foul and had to go to the bench, D-Wade picked up the slack and the Heat ties up Dallas at the half.

*JD* · 06-02-2011, 10:38 PM

The thoroughbreds are running now. Miami up 5 and just ran off 3 fast breaks.

hack · 06-02-2011, 10:40 PM

You got a feed? I don't see one tonight.

*JD* · 06-02-2011, 10:41 PM

If Bibby ever remembers how to knock down that open 3, it's over.

Oh- I guess he hit 2 in the first half. He's missed 2 since I've been watching.

*JD* · 06-02-2011, 10:45 PM

Dallas edging back into it. Bosh is Charles Smithing it. 2-13 with 2 shots blocked.

*JD* · 06-02-2011, 10:46 PM

Bibby hits a 3. Heat back up 5.

*JD* · 06-02-2011, 10:49 PM

Brian Cardinal?????? Carlisle getting crafty, I guess.

*JD* · 06-02-2011, 10:52 PM

Have Brian Cardinal and Rob Corddry ever been seen together?

Bibby hits another 3. All he needs to be is Derek Fisher with this team. Maybe he can learn to flop as well?

*JD* · 06-02-2011, 10:56 PM

Wade is having his best game in 2 weeks. 27 points, 3 rebounds and 6 assists with 2:38 left in the 3rd.

*JD* · 06-02-2011, 11:02 PM

Dallas showing some fight. They were down ten but now it's down to 4...up until Bibby hits a 2.

*JD* · 06-02-2011, 11:04 PM

Dirk hits a J but LeBron drops the hammer past Brian Cardinal on the other end. Terry responds with a J to end the 3rd. 75-71 Heat.

Mel Kiper Jr · 06-02-2011, 11:10 PM

The 2-3-2 format in the Finals is a killer if you don't win 1 of the 1st 2.

*JD* · 06-02-2011, 11:10 PM

LeBron starts the 4th on the bench. Two missed Mike Miller 3's later and he's back in. D gets turned up and Wade gets a fastbreak dunk. heat back up 4.

*JD* · 06-02-2011, 11:18 PM

Bosh gets a tip-jam that puts the Heat back up 10.

Avalanche seems to be coming.

*JD* · 06-02-2011, 11:20 PM

The lead is now 15.

hack · 06-02-2011, 11:23 PM

Yuck. Credit where it's due, though. Looking pretty bad for Dallas.

*JD* · 06-02-2011, 11:30 PM

Dallas back within 9. So, you're saying there's a chance?

*JD* · 06-02-2011, 11:32 PM

Down to 7 but LBJ draws a foul. He's 0-2 from the line tonight so.....

*JD* · 06-02-2011, 11:32 PM

First one good.

Second one good.

Maybe a tribute to the retiring Shaq?

*JD* · 06-02-2011, 11:33 PM

Kidd hits a 3. Down to 6 with 3:43 left.

*JD* · 06-02-2011, 11:34 PM

LeBron misses a fadeaway.

Terry hits.

3:11 left. 90-86 and Miami calls a TO.

*JD* · 06-02-2011, 11:36 PM

Bosh dribbles the ball out of bounds.

Dirk hits.

2 point game.

Jeff Hause · 06-02-2011, 11:39 PM

This is awesome...

*JD* · 06-02-2011, 11:39 PM

Haslem misses. No Wade shooting?

LeBron blocks Dirk and Miami gets the ball after Kidd tries a desperation shot to beat the clock.

LeBron misses a 3 but they get the offensive rebound. Chalmers kicks it to James with the shot clock about to go off and LeBron misses a desperation 3. Haslem gets the offensive board and inexplicably throws it away even though he had control.

Dallas gets an easy bucket and we are TIED.

*JD* · 06-02-2011, 11:40 PM

Wade's been hot but no shots in the last few minutes.

*JD* · 06-02-2011, 11:41 PM

Wade shoots a 3. Misses.

*JD* · 06-02-2011, 11:41 PM

Dirk hits a 3 with 26.7 left.

WOW.

Is Kevin Durant in the building?

*JD* · 06-02-2011, 11:43 PM

Mario C with a WIDE OPEN 3 to tie.

24.5 left.

06-01-2011, 09:07 PM	#111
hack Starter Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 11,065 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	I think there were a lot of people that thought playing with Wade appealed to James so he didn't have to take the tough shots. There was all that Big O talk. Chicago was shut down by the lack of a second option on offense; not to take anything away from Miami's defense. I agree that the duplication of resources hasn't hurt Miami yet and may actually help them for now -- until Chicago sorts itself out or if the Lakers manage to make some miraculous talent acquisitions this offseason to get back in the hunt. Stars get tired in the playoffs and Wade and LeBron will keep each other fresh. For now, there's no question this is going to work, even for a guy like Riley who would probably rather have the big guy than 2 swingmen. I think whether it continues to do so depends on what the next Superfriends team looks like. I don't know that this works against a team built around Paul, Anthony and Howard. There you'd have the one-man defense in Howard and the guy that makes everybody better in Paul, leaving Anthony free to rest on defense and have no responsibility other than to score. That would be a combination with a lot more complementary skills than two swingmen and the league's most expensive jumpshooting bigman. Could be a combo scary enough to Riley that I think he might be tempted to preempt it by sending Wade to Orlando. Last edited by hack; 06-01-2011 at 09:45 PM.

06-02-2011, 09:01 AM	#117
Billl Bench Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 2,382 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	Re: Duplication of talents - When the talents you are talking about are incredible perimeter defense, off the charts athleticism, unstoppable 1 on 1 scoring, great passing, solid shooting etc, then it really isn't such a bad thing to duplicate those. The real "mismatch" in the equation is Bosh. He's a great player in his own right, but he is really overshadowed on this team. They didn't need to pay another offensive focal point. Wade and Lebron can get guys open looks and make any decent NBA players into scoring threats. BTW - I'm not sure Wade/Lebron would have been this good 2-3 years ago. Wade is making about twice as many 3's now and Lebrons game has gotten a lot more balanced. They obviously both still take it to the basket a ton, but they've worked on their j's enough that teams have to play them honest. Last edited by Billl; 06-02-2011 at 09:08 AM.

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06-01-2011, 05:51 PM	#102
hack Starter Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 11,065 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	Of course he's happy with them. Easy to imagine how much happier he'd be if one them were four years younger with no injury history and didn't do basically the same thing as the other one. Riley won with Shaq and Wade, so it's a good bet that he can figure out how to make sure LeBron has lanes open even with Howard on the team.

06-01-2011, 05:57 PM	#103
Jeff Hause Sixth Man Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5,712 : 0 For This Post 1 Total	Well, as long as he's imagining, he can just imagine Howard was an offensive threat -- or just imagine Wade is 7 feet tall. Poor Pat Riley, up 1-0 in the Finals with Lebron and Wade, muttering "What if...?"

06-01-2011, 07:07 PM	#104
hack Starter Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 11,065 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	If the best you can do is exaggerate it into absurdity, maybe try just acknowledging the point for once? Do it privately if you prefer -- for $20 I will sign a non-disclosure agreement.

06-01-2011, 07:34 PM	#105
Jeff Hause Sixth Man Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5,712 : 0 For This Post 1 Total	"Absurdity?" You're speculating that Riley secretly wants to trade Wade for Howard while they're one up in the Finals, to be more "complimentary." For a more aesthetically pleasing Finals Team, I guess...

06-01-2011, 07:37 PM	#106
whoDean Sixth Man Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 4,955 : 0 For This Post 1 Total	LOL, I guess The Heat will go down as the LEAST aesthetically pleasing Champ in NBA history.

06-01-2011, 07:39 PM	#107
hack Starter Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 11,065 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	Of course it's absurd to want to trade a 29-year-old often injured guard for a 25-year-old who has never been hurt and is the game's best interior player.

06-01-2011, 07:48 PM	#108
Stefan S Starter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: South Texas Posts: 8,259 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	I am not betting against Rick either. Also, yes, Miami played a great D game (so did Dallas through about 3 1/2 quarters). But, still, it seemed to me like the Heat had tougher O possessions than The Mavs, they were just able to make some of those very difficult shots. Carlisle was right in that comment quoted above -- lots of time Dallas would make most/more of shots (because many of the looks were good ones). And if they start making them, maybe it will put more pressure on Miami.

06-01-2011, 08:13 PM	#109
King Mob Bench Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,448 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	Dallas' D looked pretty solid until they inexplicably went away from the zone.

06-01-2011, 09:45 PM	#113
hack Starter Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 11,065 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	Edited to your satisfaction.

06-01-2011, 11:38 PM	#115
Mainevent Bench Player Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,321 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	Tuesday's game had the highest finals opener rating since . . . wait for it . . . . . wait for it . . . . . . . . since 2004.

06-02-2011, 07:13 AM	#116
hack Starter Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 11,065 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	I guess that the casual fan loves defense?

06-02-2011, 09:18 AM	#118
hack Starter Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 11,065 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	In the end it's sharing the ball versus playing together, but I agree that those two can make it work -- at least until a properly constructed Superfriends team comes along. And over time they may really learn to play together and really complement each other as opposed to just sharing. Still, Riley and probably any other GM in his shoes would trade Wade for Howard if the chance arose (which is unlikely). Totally agreed about Bosh. You can pay a guy half that much to get boards, set screens and can jumpers.

06-02-2011, 10:17 AM	#119
JD Bench Player Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 1,439 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	Don't worry, Hack- Lou was saying the same things at your age when Earl "The Pearl" Monroe joined Walt "Clyde" Frazier in NY.

06-02-2011, 10:35 AM	#120
hack Starter Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 11,065 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	It's a string of ifs, but assuming the amnesty and the Knicks are able to drop Stoudamire and add Paul and Howard, we'll have our answer. Or if someone else is able to put together a more traditionally-structured star trio.

06-02-2011, 10:40 AM	#121
JD Bench Player Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 1,439 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	Like Monroe, DWFP and Harrison Barnes?

06-02-2011, 10:44 AM	#122
hack Starter Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 11,065 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	Was the insinuation that obvious?

06-02-2011, 10:31 PM	#123
JD Bench Player Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 1,439 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	I just caught the tail end of the 2nd quarter. After LeBron got his 3rd foul and had to go to the bench, D-Wade picked up the slack and the Heat ties up Dallas at the half.

06-02-2011, 10:38 PM	#124
JD Bench Player Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 1,439 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	The thoroughbreds are running now. Miami up 5 and just ran off 3 fast breaks.

06-02-2011, 10:40 PM	#125
hack Starter Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 11,065 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	You got a feed? I don't see one tonight.

06-02-2011, 10:41 PM	#126
JD Bench Player Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 1,439 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	If Bibby ever remembers how to knock down that open 3, it's over. Oh- I guess he hit 2 in the first half. He's missed 2 since I've been watching.

06-02-2011, 10:45 PM	#127
JD Bench Player Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 1,439 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	Dallas edging back into it. Bosh is Charles Smithing it. 2-13 with 2 shots blocked.

06-02-2011, 10:46 PM	#128
JD Bench Player Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 1,439 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	Bibby hits a 3. Heat back up 5.

06-02-2011, 10:49 PM	#129
JD Bench Player Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 1,439 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	Brian Cardinal?????? Carlisle getting crafty, I guess.

06-02-2011, 10:52 PM	#130
JD Bench Player Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 1,439 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	Have Brian Cardinal and Rob Corddry ever been seen together? Bibby hits another 3. All he needs to be is Derek Fisher with this team. Maybe he can learn to flop as well?

06-02-2011, 10:56 PM	#131
JD Bench Player Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 1,439 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	Wade is having his best game in 2 weeks. 27 points, 3 rebounds and 6 assists with 2:38 left in the 3rd.

06-02-2011, 11:02 PM	#132
JD Bench Player Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 1,439 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	Dallas showing some fight. They were down ten but now it's down to 4...up until Bibby hits a 2.

06-02-2011, 11:04 PM	#133
JD Bench Player Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 1,439 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	Dirk hits a J but LeBron drops the hammer past Brian Cardinal on the other end. Terry responds with a J to end the 3rd. 75-71 Heat.

06-02-2011, 11:10 PM	#134
Mel Kiper Jr Bench Player Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 1,349 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	The 2-3-2 format in the Finals is a killer if you don't win 1 of the 1st 2.

06-02-2011, 11:10 PM	#135
JD Bench Player Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 1,439 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	LeBron starts the 4th on the bench. Two missed Mike Miller 3's later and he's back in. D gets turned up and Wade gets a fastbreak dunk. heat back up 4.

06-02-2011, 11:18 PM	#136
JD Bench Player Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 1,439 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	Bosh gets a tip-jam that puts the Heat back up 10. Avalanche seems to be coming.