[tin mad dog]

Since they are both PG's in this draft that will face each other at least 4 or 5 times a year, this seems like a better match-up to focus on.

[tin mad dog]

Or, we could do:



Vs.

[papalawrence]

Or perhaps Irving vs Knight vs Walker.

[Hobbs]

We never had a chance at Irving.

Walker vs. Knight is relevant because we had the choice. Markieff/Marcus or Leonard is probably applicable as well. I suppose if you're a big Jimmer fan then there is that too.

[The King]

Knight can wind up being better than Irving, no doubt about it.

Irving had TWO points in the tourney vs. Michigan. I don't see it with that guy.

[*JD*]

Originally Posted by Hobbs

We never had a chance at Irving.

It doesn't always have to be the guy that WE passed up. Bird and Magic were pitted against each other because they came into the league the same year and played for rival teams. Cleveland is somewhat of a natural rival.

[King Mob]

I thought that was rooted more in the college rivalry.

[*JD*]

Originally Posted by King Mob

I thought that was rooted more in the college rivalry.

That is where it started so I guess there's a more natural link.

LeBron and Melo were compared to each other for a while.

[B.I.G.]

YouTube - ‪WildcatWorld.com - Brandon Knight Highlights from ESPN televised game, 2/5/2010‬‏

[Mainevent]

Originally Posted by The King

Knight can wind up being better than Irving, no doubt about it.

Irving had TWO points in the tourney vs. Michigan. I don't see it with that guy.

Knight had 2 points against Princeton.

[The King]

Bird and Magic HATED each other into the pros. They wouldn't talk to each other. I watched some Bird/Magic HBO show a few months back. They became friends when Magic came to French Lick to film a commercial. Magic sat down with Larry and they literally became best friends. They only hated each other due to competition.

BTW, I didn't know how serious Bird's back issues were late in his career. He was bascially a cripple. He was in constant pain.

Any guesses on how Bird blew out his back? It was the offseason after he won MVP. He blew it out paving either his parents or his DRIVEWAY by HIMSELF. That's just the type of dude Bird was. How many MVP's in ANY sport will be out there paving a friggin driveway?

[capnpaco]

The MVP of the National Driveway Paving League?

I thought this was entertaining:

Michael Rosenberg: Pistons' draft pick Knight has parents to thank | Detroit Free Press | freep.com

Pistons director of player personnel George David attended nine Kentucky practices this year, which is extremely unusual. He did it because Kentucky center Enes Kanter was ineligible for games, and the Pistons loved Kanter. The only time they could scout him was in practice.




Scouts aren’t allowed to talk to college players, so Knight didn’t know who David was. When Knight met with the Pistons in Chicago for his pre-draft interview, he saw David in the room and did a double-take. He said David was at so many Kentucky practices, he just assumed he was one of Calipari’s friends.

[Dave Bing]

I'm enjoying the Knight videos but that form is disturbing. He has to get the basketball off of his neck.

[Medz]

He also needs to learn how to drive left. In every video I've seen, when he goes right he drives, and if he goes left he shoots. You can't be that predictable in the NBA.

[Kstat]

He's very consistent with it. I'll give him that. That's the most important thing about being a good shooter in the NBA. His form never deviates, and he always releases at the peak of his jump.

[Dave Bing]

This is true, whether he pulls up, catches and shoots or sets up, same ugly but effective release.

[Kstat]

Originally Posted by Medz

He also needs to learn how to drive left. In every video I've seen, when he goes right he drives, and if he goes left he shoots. You can't be that predictable in the NBA.

That was a point I tried to make in my scouting report.

He's the fastest PG in the draft (the fastest in the last 3 drafts actually), but it doesn't always show on film because he's too predictable. He has to be harder to anticipate. Every drive he makes is to his right, full speed, straight ahead.

Raw speed doesn't matter if you're constantly cut off by a defender.

[GC_STONES]

That's what Knight said he has been working on recently, his left hand drive. I'm confident that he will become proficient in that by the end of his rookie year. I want to see efficient shot selection from him as well. It probably won't happen Year 1 - I just want his fire and competitiveness to infect our team (after we dump the scrub veterans).

[Dave Bing]

He has always been "the man" on his teams. It will be interesting to see if he develops the ability to feed and inspire his teammates. Isiah was always the man but he knew how to bring along his running mates.

[GC_STONES]

Yes, Knight did that in H.S. as well as at Kentucky. He perhaps will shy away from that if the Masked-Virus Hamilton is still in town. Dumars cannot let this happen, we all know this, don't let Rip near Knight.

The beauty of it all is that Knight wants to be the guy and leader. He has the credentials to do so; but it will be vital to be rid of the douchebag veteran(s) and to hire the appropriate coaching staff to enable Knight.

[Kstat]

Knight, Stuckey and Monroe are a nice 1-2-3 starting point.

Ideally you want some size out of next year's draft, but how could you pass up Harrison Barnes if the chips fall that way? In addition to that, next year's crop is big on athletic PFs but small on shot-blocking centers. The lone hope is really John Henson, who needs a minumum of 20 more lbs before he can even be considered undersized.

[GC_STONES]

Henson, Anthony Davis, Perry Jones, Barnes, Plumlee, T Robinson... all these players will be lottery type forwards for us to take.

I don't really want Sullinger to pair with Monroe; sure, push comes to shove, I'll take him - but any of the above players would be ideal next draft and unless we make the playoffs - we'll snatch one of them up.

[Kstat]

Never mention any of the Plumlee sisters here again. We better not go down that road.

The only thing both Duke and UNC fans both agree on is that the Plumbli are a family of gigantic pansies.

[Kstat]

Sullinger would be better than fine. He's got raw bulk and low post ability that take pressure off Monroe.

[The King]

Plumlee? Good God. Please no!

[GC_STONES]

Not sure of your reference, but Mason Plumlee plays pretty tough; and he has size/athleticism/defense to boot. I like him in the 10-15th pick range next draft.

[Kstat]

None of them play tough. I'm forced to watch them play every other game. They play small when they are almost always the biggest guys on the floor. They suck ass.

[GC_STONES]

Between Sullinger and Monroe - our help side D would be a mystery - and really our defense overall would be a joke.

Like I said, beggars can't be choosers (yes second idiom of the hour) and I would take Sullinger if we are in a similar position next draft (7-10 range). However, give me any of Barnes, P Jones, A Davis, J Henson, T Robinson... 100% over Sully.

[The King]

Sullinger or Henson works for me. Sullinger on the low block and Monroe up high. Henson is really the intriguing guy to me. He reminds me of Camby. Could you imagine a young Camby on this team? That's guy has FREAKISH length. I saw him last year make TWO huge plays just defending the inbounds pass. He's rail thin, but that guy is the most interesting player to me in college hoops next year.

[GC_STONES]

Originally Posted by Kstat

None of them play tough. I'm forced to watch them play every other game. They play small when they are almost always the biggest guys on the floor. They suck ass.

I'll take your word for it. I watched a decent number of Duke games last season and Mason was quite active, good rebounder, athletic, length, good help side defender too.

[GC_STONES]

Originally Posted by The King

Sullinger or Henson works for me. Sullinger on the low block and Monroe up high. Henson is really the intriguing guy to me. He reminds me of Camby. Could you imagine a young Camby on this team? That's guy has FREAKISH length. I saw him last year make TWO huge plays just defending the inbounds pass. He's rail thin, but that guy is the most interesting player to me in college hoops next year.

Agreed. A frontcourt of Monroe, Jerebko (100% healthy), Daye, Henson , and a mystery free agent big.... that's serious length. Henson and Jones are pretty much 1a/1b for me if we are in the 3-7th pick range.

[Kstat]

I'm going to be very interested in Henson this year. He'll get a lot of exposure on the #1 team in the country. He has to show that he can add muscle and actually play the game instead of relying solely on instinct.

I was very unimpressed with him as an NBA prospect this year, but I added that he had potential if he stayed in school another year and worked hard on his game.

[Kstat]

10 of NBAdraft.net's top 24 prospects for next year are from UNC or Kentucky, 5 from each school.

[hack]

Re Knight's form it's his lower body that's inconsistent. The legs are rarely in the same spot so he's not square. That's how he shot UK out of the UConn game. With proper form a few of those goes in. That's what consistency is for in the first place -- you have your body in the same spot every time to eliminate the variables. Same as a golf swing or a million other methods in sports. Knight isn't dumb; he should know this. Rip knows this. Rip goes up square, and often adjusts his body in the air to do so.

[papalawrence]

Originally Posted by *JD*

It doesn't always have to be the guy that WE passed up. Bird and Magic were pitted against each other because they came into the league the same year and played for rival teams. Cleveland is somewhat of a natural rival.

True, but Irving will be leaving Cleveland in 4 years.

[Big Jerm]

Originally Posted by hack

Re Knight's form it's his lower body that's inconsistent. The legs are rarely in the same spot so he's not square. That's how he shot UK out of the UConn game. With proper form a few of those goes in. That's what consistency is for in the first place -- you have your body in the same spot every time to eliminate the variables. Same as a golf swing or a million other methods in sports. Knight isn't dumb; he should know this. Rip knows this. Rip goes up square, and often adjusts his body in the air to do so.

You're quite right about his form and the need to improve it, but I'd say it's probably a product of him not NEEDING to fix it up to this point. He's been good enough to dominate most other players at the high school and college levels without making changes, and anyone who's played basketball knows that changing the form on your jumper is far from an overnight process. You'd think his college coaches would have tried to do something with him, but you also have to consider that they only have them for the season, and then they aren't going to want to change things while there are games to be played. I think once he gets with a shooting coach and this becomes his full time job, we'll see the changes that you're looking for.

[Stefan S]

Grant Hill totally redesigned and rebuilt from scratch his shot. It takes lots of time, effort, and repetitions but it's doable.

Knight seems to be a guy having similar dedication and work ethics. I have a feeling we'll be very happy with him for a long time.

[Dave Bing]

I think that what Jerm is saying is right. Reminds me of something that one of Shawn Marion's temmates once said, I can't remember who it was. Just that he was always so much better than everyone else, always so talented, he never had to perfect his form. No one could make him change, it wasn't worth it to coaches and Marion never felt the need.

Now, a 6'7" forward can get away with a low release better than a 6'3" point. But nor do I think that Brandon's release is as bad as Marion's. He shoots it too low, yes, but he gets in off quickly and regularly.Hacker's concern about his squaring to the basket in the middle-range pull-up area strikes me as legitimate but easily correctible.

[hack]

He wouldn't be the first lottery pick not to bother and never to be forced. Jarvis Hayes is another good example. Great stroke and crap form. And, bad result.

[tin mad dog]

I'd rather have a Zeller than a Plumlee, if we're going that route.

[tin mad dog]

So Knight and Kyrie do have some history:

Knight and Kyrie Irving were peers and rivals via the AAU circuit and ratings services before they ever chose their college destinations, so it’s not a stretch to believe Knight privately believes he was worthy of Cleveland’s consideration for the No. 1 pick. It doesn’t appear the Cavs widened the search beyond Irving, Derrick Williams or Kanter.
“My relationship (with Irving) is basically when I see him, we communicate,” Knight said. “That’s about it. I’m not frustrated at all (that Cleveland didn’t consider him). I’m happy to be here and plan to do whatever it takes to help my team win. I’m not really focusing on the workouts in the past or to have the opportunity to work out against so and so. Right now, it’s all about the Detroit Pistons.”

[B.I.G.]

They do have some history, check out irving and knights dunk sessions

YouTube - ‪Kyrie Irving and Brandon Knight Dunk Session‬‏

[Mel Kiper Jr]

Does anyone realize that Irving only averaged 4.3 apg at Duke? By his "pure pg" label, you'd think he would have ageraged more.

[Kstat]

4.3 would have been good for 4th in the ACC last year. Assists are very difficult to accumulate in college.

Knight's 4.1 average was good for #2 in the SEC.

[Jeff Hause]

Originally Posted by hack

He wouldn't be the first lottery pick not to bother and never to be forced. Jarvis Hayes is another good example. Great stroke and crap form. And, bad result.

You realize that he's only been out of high school for a year, right?

[Mainevent]

Originally Posted by Mel Kiper Jr

Does anyone realize that Irving only averaged 4.3 apg at Duke? By his "pure pg" label, you'd think he would have averaged more.

Irving played 9 less minutes per game than Knight and still averaged slightly more assists per game. He had 3 games over 7+ assists in the first 8 he played before he went out with the foot injury. It took Knight a whole season to rack up that many.

Boiling it down to stats on either said doesn't tell the whole story, there are so many variables and both guys are so young. But I honestly can't understand how anybody could watch these 2 guys play and come away with the impression that Knight is nearly as developed as a PG.

[Jangul]

Yeah, with Knight, we're betting that potential + character will eventually = production. But Knight has much to improve on to become a solid NBA point.

Irving, on the other hand, is pretty much as polished and NBA ready as a one and done point guard can be. He has the jumper, the court vision, and he takes care of the ball.

There's no argument to be made statistically that Knight plays with the same efficiency as Irving. He has to look for teammates more, take care of the ball better, and take better shots at the next level. Hopefully that work ethic directed by the right coaching will get him there.

[hack]

That's the thing about Irving -- man oh man does he look the part. Even after the injury, reintegrating himself in the tourney, he was a freshman visibly in charge of an offense that included 4-year seniors and a Naismith candidate. There's an old soul in there.

[hack]

I honestly can't understand how anybody could watch these 2 guys play and come away with the impression that Knight is nearly as developed as a PG.

I think the biggest bit of hyperbole we've seen in the past few days (apart from WORST DRAFT EVER!!!!!!!!!!) is the idea that Knight can be better than Irving. Becoming a PG is not merely a function of hard work and measurables.

[JMab]

I read some draft write-ups and thought I'd return to find a forum full of posters excited about lucking into a talented young point who had dropped a few spots... but have been interested to hear the counter-views. Not sure why there has been so much love for Biyombo, but can completely understand how that would have happened in this forum.