[whoDean]

Thread to talk about players on other NBA teams than the Pistons

[whoDean]

Josh Smith: So Good ... So Bad - TrueHoop By Henry Abbott - ESPN

[Inbetweengame]

Here's a topic, Tim Duncan's legacy, what is it to you?

[ThaMaestro]

HOF... Top 3 if not the greatest PF of all-time even though I always considered him a center, but he'll go in the books as a PF. One of the best all around games you'll find in a big man.

[Inbetweengame]

That's where I see Duncan as well. One of my very favorite players ever because I enjoy the fundamentals and the stoic demeanor. Was talking to a 21 year old kid and found myself shocked by how little he appreciates Duncan.

He came around but people dismiss him already. Sad really.

[whoDean]

Duncan is not flashy, and I don't think the league has ever marketed him like they did Shaq, Kobe, Lebron, Wade etc.

[fredsue]

Duncan has never been the type of personality that the league gets behind and makes a big deal about. He just plays basketball well. He does have those thounderous dunks that come from the sky. He just puts the ball in the basket. He does not have a killer crossover or run over people. He just gets great position and uses wonderful footwork to make the baskets look easier.

The big fundemental is a very good name for him. Many will forget him as time goes along except for the championships.

[Medz]

Greatest PF to ever play the game.

[whoDean]

I'm putting this here because AI is no longer a Piston.

NBA Reclamation Projects: Nine Players on The Brink of Disaster | Bleacher Report

Allen Iverson—Detroit Pistons

Iverson earned a reputation in the league for being physically fearless—undaunted in challenging the paint against bigger, stronger defenders.

Sadly, in reality, Iverson is a coward who is too scared to reject the bad habits that have plagued his NBA past.

He’s too scared to sublimate his desires to over handle the basketball and make a play only for himself or by driving and dishing.

He’s too scared to focus and play disciplined defense and instead opts to gamble for steals at the expense of leaving his check wide open.

He’s too scared to sacrifice himself (like by accepting a sixth man role) for the good of the team.

And whenever faced with those challenges, he simply removes himself from the situation by blaming his coaches, blaming his teammates, or simply bailing on the team as he did in Detroit this year.

Sadly, Detroit was Iverson’s best chance to convert himself, but he didn’t want to do it.

If he can’t turn those bad habits around, he’ll go down in history as one of the most overrated stat-compilers who ever played the game.

[bozo the clown]

Have to agree with a lot of it, even if he is dangerously hyperbolic.

[Inbetweengame]

Agree with a lot of what people said about Tim Duncan and I love the guy for his fundamental game. In my mind if you're picking the greatest of all time and staying strictly to their positions you can't choose your starting five without Tim Duncan.

His defense alone makes him much, much better than Karl Malone or Kevin McHale add to that the leadership, efficiency and four championships with drastically different rosters and the comparison becomes something of a joke.

On to Allen Iverson, up until this year I was a big Iverson fan and defender but he embarrassed himself this year in a big way. First of all he said all the right things and then went out and did all the wrong things. This is a pathetic Stephon Marbury type punk move and I really thought AI was above this sort of thing.

He was never going to be a good fit but had he actually adjusted the way he said he would instead of whining like a spoiled child our season would still be a thing considered in the present tense.

I wanted to see Allen Iverson finally grow up; start eating right, start practicing, start taking care of his body basically proving that he had something resembling brains to go with his very obvious abundance of heart. He did none of this and in the process made an ass of himself and everyone who's stood up for him over the years.

On a positive note Rajon Rondo is a bad, bad man. And word to Matt Newman any comparisons between him and Rodney Stuckey are at this point totally ridiculous. What Rondo did against Orlando and has already done guiding a champion deserves a little respect even in fanboyland.

[Inbetweengame]

RealGM Portland Trailblazers Front Office

Interesting take on Brandon Roy.

[Mainevent]

His defense alone makes him much, much better than Karl Malone or Kevin McHale

Malone & McHale were excellent defenders. Maybe not the anchors to a team philosophy like Duncan has been, but multiple 1st/2nd team All-NBA defenders.

[mn3]

Definitely. I know Tim Duncan is the choice of many as best PF of all-time, but I remember Kevin McHale being a tremendous talent at both ends of the court. I think he belongs in that conversation. I thought Malone was a bit overrated as a defender - and thought he stunk in the clutch, so I rate him a tick behind.

[THE PISTONS]

Ask yourself this: If you put Duncan and McHale on say the Clippers. Who would make the Clippers better and by how much?

[ThaMaestro]

McHale hasn't done much for the TWolves.

[THE PISTONS]

But could Tim Duncan wreck that franchise equally or maybe even a little better?

[ThaMaestro]

I may be wrong, but I don't see Duncan as a front office kinda guy. I think he'll retire and happily fade out of the spotlight.

But he would do a much better job than McHale, I'm sure.

[The King]

I don't think anyone was comparing Stuckey to Rondo, they were comparing (as I did) his possible similar developmental growth in year two and three as a full time starting PG in the NBA.

I can see Stuckey moving up a "level" or two in the next couple years because the talent to do so is there.

[bozo the clown]

If Stuckey started tossing up triple-doubles in the playoffs in a year or two, that would be be beyond our wildest dreams. Except for Newman.

[THE PISTONS]

Stuckey is going to keep getting better. He will probably average 20 ppg at his peak.

The question is can he average 8 assists per game?

[Dave Bing]

A lot depends on how we are going to use him and if we can get some spot up shooters. He can get to the paint with ease. He needs to be a better finisher and he needs to know when and where to kick it out. I just think that he's a bad match with Rip. Chauncey was a perfect match for Hamilton.

[THE PISTONS]

Just to throw this out there...maybe Stuckey is going to be a good player, but not a franchise or number 1 guy. We are probably going to have to get a Super Star here, then Stuckey will be at his best.

[Nash]

I think everybody except Matt realizes that TP.

[THE PISTONS]

The big question is, where do we get the better player at?

[Nash]

You don't just get a guy like that... maybe through the draft but not free agency. The only guy that will be available is Amare, but he's a question mark because of the injuries.

[TJPiston]

ESPN - OTL: The Disposable Superstar - E-ticket


A very LONG but excellent piece on Chauncey's story.

Some interesting stuff in there too.

Also, I'm pretty sure they reveal that Dice getting cut by Denver so he could rejoin the Pistons was prearranged.

[DTH]

Good article. I like this part about the events leading up to the trade.

The Pistons' team charter en route to Charlotte, Nov. 2, 2008

Unaware his world is about to go spinning, Chauncey is flying to North Carolina for an early season game against the Bobcats.

The night before, Piper had predicted he'd be gone by the trade deadline, but Chauncey told his wife, "Why would you say that? We're going to win a championship this year."

But Piper's right; the Pistons want Chauncey out ASAP. First of all, they love Rodney Stuckey and think he can be Chauncey's heir apparent, and they also think their current roster has maxed out. More than that, they're trying to clear cap space so they can make a run at LeBron James, Chris Bosh or Dwyane Wade in the summer of 2010. Rasheed Wallace's contract will be expiring after the season, and if they can deal Chauncey for another expiring contract -- say, Allen Iverson's -- then they'll have cap room galore.

Dumars, before he agrees to settle for Iverson, reportedly asks for Carmelo Anthony. If not for the Olympics, maybe Denver would've considered it -- or at least discussed it -- but Anthony has shown in Beijing that he's more serious about the game. He has played stout defense for Team USA, and, during the ensuing Nuggets training camp, he promises George Karl he'll do it again for him. So Anthony is going nowhere. It has to be a Billups-for-Iverson swap.

The talks are finalized before the team flies to Charlotte, and, on the flight, Chauncey can tell he's being ignored. "He notices Joe and none of the coaches can even look at him," Ray says. "And that's when he knows something is wrong."

When the flight lands, he chats with Antonio McDyess, who tells him about the impending trade. It isn't official yet, but the Pistons have filled McDyess in, because they need to trade his salary to balance the deal. They tell him that Denver will waive him, and they'll want to re-sign him. But they tell Chauncey nothing.

Though he has been traded three times before, it still stings. At the team hotel, on Nov. 2, Dumars and the coaches are staying right down the hall from him, but no one invites him down for a goodbye chat. Then, on the morning of Nov. 3, before the shootaround, it becomes official: Chauncey to Denver.

He's going home again, but he calls Piper and tells her it feels bittersweet. "I've been through some dark alleys with them dudes, man,'' he tells her. "They're my brothers."

He begins packing at the team hotel, when there's a knock on the door. It's Hamilton and Prince, the trio together one last time. They embrace, cry, laugh and reminisce. They call Ben Wallace, a Cavalier now, and put him on speaker phone. Wallace tells them, "I told you how they are." Hamilton is the most affected of all. He has just signed an extension, and he tells Chauncey he wants to be traded now, that if he'd known they were going to trade Chauncey, he never would've re-upped in Detroit.

They keep talking about games, moments, shots. Hamilton has always told Chauncey he wants his toddler son to someday marry Chauncey's toddler daughter, and he brings it up again. At one point, Piper calls Chauncey's cell and Chauncey tells her, "Call me back. I'm talking to my guys." It goes on this way for three incredible hours that Chauncey says, "I'll never forget. We were, 'Wow, wow,' in disbelief. Just coming to the realization it was over.'"

Eventually, Chauncey tells them he has a flight to catch, and he walks out the door. The three of them enter the elevator, and Chauncey pauses to give Hamilton a last hug.

Hamilton breaks down, sobbing. Absolutely sobbing.

[fredsue]

With the way that Dumars honors players with regards to wanting to be traded I can see Rip being moved this offseason.

[GC_STONES]

Rip should go. Like I said, if OKC gets Griffin in the draft... we should move Hams for Jeff Green.

OKC gets a veteran, championship guard to pair with Westbrook; and the Pistons get a all-star caliber under 25 forward to retool their roster

[whoDean]

Chauncey was the worst trade this side of Pau Gasol in the NBA in the last 10 years.

[TJPiston]

If there were no financial benefits involved in the deal, it would indeed be one of the worst trades ever.

[TJPiston]

Also the article insinuates:

1) Chauncey is still bitter about the trade

2) The part where Joe D. and the coaches don't look him in the eye on the team flight is interesting.

3) Supposedly, they went to Dice first to tell him that they had to include him in the deal because of salary and Denver would waive him so he could come back.

4) The article also says that it was Dice who informed Chauncey about the trade.

5) Joe and the coaches did not invite Chauncey for a "goodbye" chat while they were at the Hotel.

It's funny how the announcers try to theorize why Chauncey has exploded in the playoffs. "He's trying to show the league he can compete on the same level as Chris Paul!"

Yeah that's it....

It's clear he has a giant chip on his shoulder as a result of the trade.

He never wanted to leave and he feels he was taken for granted (To be fair, I think Chauncey also took some things for granted) and not appreciated.

[Whiteman]

Damn as far as other players go. I would be happy with Millsap and Bass. They would come cheap and compete.

[Whiteman]

wow Dirk played his ass off in a win or go home game. Much love for Dirk tonight.
Isn't he a restricted free agent this year?

[bozo the clown]

Dirk is an amazing player. He gets a bad rap for not being able to take thhe team on his shoulders. He should team up with LeBron, that would be downright sickening.

[Money23]

To be fair, he at least somewhat earned that rap for crumbling in some pretty big games/series'.

That said, if he and Lebron wind up on the same team, I will seriously boycott the NBA. ;)

[Money23]

Originally Posted by whoDean

Chauncey was the worst trade this side of Pau Gasol in the NBA in the last 10 years.

No way. You have to wait and see what the Iverson money brings in before that declaration has any legitimacy.

[tin mad dog]

Originally Posted by TJPiston

Also the article insinuates:

1) Chauncey is still bitter about the trade

2) The part where Joe D. and the coaches don't look him in the eye on the team flight is interesting.

3) Supposedly, they went to Dice first to tell him that they had to include him in the deal because of salary and Denver would waive him so he could come back.

4) The article also says that it was Dice who informed Chauncey about the trade.

5) Joe and the coaches did not invite Chauncey for a "goodbye" chat while they were at the Hotel.

It's funny how the announcers try to theorize why Chauncey has exploded in the playoffs. "He's trying to show the league he can compete on the same level as Chris Paul!"

Yeah that's it....

It's clear he has a giant chip on his shoulder as a result of the trade.

He never wanted to leave and he feels he was taken for granted (To be fair, I think Chauncey also took some things for granted) and not appreciated.

Yeah, I really don't like how Joe didn't take him in to break the news. For an organization that has for the most part had the image of being a very classy one, that's a blow. One that may come back to haunt us when the big FA's are out there. Selling a FA on coming to Detroit instead of some nicer city is the first stopper but we had the team and the organization (as well as Detroit fans, to a lesser extent) as our selling points.

The ripple effect of this trade could set us back just as bad as drafting Darko.

This article also makes Dumars look like an idiot for not doing more background work on . He was still going out for late night's during the season and leading Denver's young stars down the wrong path, as well as AI's limitations on the court. You have to wonder what damage has been done to Stuckey without having a leader to guide him and having AI's influence.

[whoDean]

Originally Posted by Money23

No way. You have to wait and see what the Iverson money brings in before that declaration has any legitimacy.

Nope, I'm ready to say it right now, 2nd worst trade of the decade.

Chauncey is leading Denver where they have never been before, where he took us for what 6-7 straight years, to the Conference Finals.

This great team absolutely fell apart without him.

[whoDean]

Article about Joe Johnson:

Almost every player on the Hawks’ roster is either at the end of a contract, or near the end of a contract, or on somebody’s, “Let’s drop-kick this guy out of town,” list.

Josh Smith doesn’t have a contract issue. That tells you what category he fits in.

But if you really believe the Hawks need to shake things up this off-season and possibly trade one of their starters, don’t look at Josh Smith. Look at Joe Johnson.

People, this isn’t even close.

This week’s Countdown . . .
10: Ordinary Joe: 2-for-18 in playoffs

Joe Johnson is a three-time All-Star. I felt I needed to get that out there right away because it seems like any time somebody criticizes Joe Johnson, one of his defenders screams, “He’s a three-time All-Star!” But this is business and these are the facts: Joe has one year left on his contract. He just completed an awful post-season, during which he played one good game and 10 generally crummy ones. In last year’s playoffs, he went 1-for-7 against Boston. This is not what you want from a guy who’s supposed to be your best player, especially when the game’s matter most. It’s certainly not what you want from a player who should be your leader but seldom acts like one. Or acts like he wants to be one. Joe’s one of those quiet guys who just wants to do his thing, whatever his thing is. But that’s not good enough here.
9. Sund has some difficult decisions

General manager Rick Sund just completed his first season. I’m not suggesting that his first makeover would be a failure if he doesn’t trade Joe Johnson. But it’s something he should look at. Just tweaking this roster may not be enough to get this team to the next level. With Johnson turning 28, chances are we’ve seen the best he has to offer. His skill set would be valuable on the trade market to elite teams that are looking for a complimentary player to round out their roster. He potentially could fetch a lot in trade. It’s worth exploring. Here’s why:
8. Team’s core is smaller than you think
Yes, Josh Smith can be maddening. But trading him could come back to haunt the Hawks. (Curtis Compton/ccompton@ajc.com.)

Yes, Josh Smith can be maddening. But he has talent, upside and youth -- and he outplayed Johnson in the playoffs. (Curtis Compton/ccompton@ajc.com.)

I hear a lot about the Hawks’ having a great core of players. Don’t know about that. But if that’s true, here’s how I would list the guys to build around: 1) Al Horford (absolute); 2) Josh Smith (probably); 3) Marvin Williams (maybe). Johnson is not a core piece. Chances are, he’s out the door next year. Mike Bibby might be gone already. Yes, Smith is maddening. But he remains by far the most talented player on the roster with the most upside. The Hawks’ greatest nightmare would be dealing him and then seeing him turn into a human wrecking machine with another team and under another coach. He scored 26 points in Game 4 against Cleveland. He certainly outplayed and outscored Johnson in these playoffs. You don’t trade Josh Smith. He’s a difference maker. Even if sometimes the difference is for the other team.

[TJPiston]

If we ever traded Rip, Joe Johnson is the type of SG, I'd want as he would be a nice fit with Stuckey.

1. Good size

2. Great shooter and can hit the 3 with great proficiency

3. Can handle the ball, run the offense and let Stuckey play off the ball for some time

4. Good defender

5. All-Star player with good take over ability.

[Whisper]

Originally Posted by TJPiston

If we ever traded Rip, Joe Johnson is the type of SG, I'd want as he would be a nice fit with Stuckey.

1. Good size

2. Great shooter and can hit the 3 with great proficiency

3. Can handle the ball, run the offense and let Stuckey play off the ball for some time

4. Good defender

5. All-Star player with good take over ability.

6....and, most importantly, would give us a max contract guy who isn't tough in the postseason.

[TJPiston]

True he makes too much, but he is becoming a FA soon, right? 2010?

As "one of the guys," I think his value is significant. If he's the 2nd or 3rd best player on your team you are in great shape.

[Money23]

Originally Posted by whoDean

Nope, I'm ready to say it right now, 2nd worst trade of the decade.

Chauncey is leading Denver where they have never been before, where he took us for what 6-7 straight years, to the Conference Finals.

This great team absolutely fell apart without him.

It was also the loss of Flip and the addition of Curry. I give this team 10 more wins if Flip was here.

But I don't know how you could make the case when clearly it was a cap move. I will wait and see what the result from Joe's moves net us before labeling it the second worst trade in ten years or whatever. If we somehow wind up with Dwyane Wade or something crazy, Joe's a genius again. Not that it's likely, but just sayin'.

[GC_STONES]

stuff from around the league, should we do an 'other teams' thread or put it all in here?

Granger Most Improved

Indiana Pacers All-Star forward Danny Granger will cap off his stellar season today when he's named the NBA's Most Improved Player, according to multiple sources with knowledge of the situation.

Granger will be the third Pacer to win the award, joining Jalen Rose (2000) and Jermaine O'Neal (2002). -- The Indianapolis Star

Bibby Hopes To Return

Do the Hawks bring Mike Bibby back? He made $15 million this season, the final year of a three-year deal he signed with Sacramento before being traded to Atlanta last season.

If it is up to Bibby, he'll return.

"It's not my decision to make," Bibby said. "I told them before, I love it here. ... I definitely want to come back. I love the coaching staff, love the team, love the city."

Count coach Mike Woodson as being in Bibby's corner.

"I would love to have him back next year," Woodson said. "Mike Bibby is a big part of what we did this season. He came over last year and we don't make the playoffs without Mike. We don't win 47 games this year and sew up the fourth spot and host the first round at Philips Arena without Mike. I would love to have Mike back." -- The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Cavs Have Interest In Chandler?

Sources say everyone on the Hornets' roster is available except Chris Paul and power forward David West. The Cavs could have interest in 7-foot-1 center Tyson Chandler, who has had some ankle and toe problems. But he's only 26. That's one to keep your eye on. -- The News-Herald

[TJPiston]

Keep it all in here and rename the title "Other teams/players"

?

[Stefan S]

Originally Posted by TJPiston

ESPN - OTL: The Disposable Superstar - E-ticket


A very LONG but excellent piece on Chauncey's story.

Thank you for the link. An excellent essay, indeed.

[Stefan S]

Originally Posted by whoDean

Chauncey was the worst trade this side of Pau Gasol in the NBA in the last 10 years.

I'm not so sure. For the Pistons, the name of the game is to go all the way; nothing less is satisfactory. It seems like our last year team maxed up. That is, even with Cahuncey, it's doubtful we would be able to emerge from the East this year. So, Joe Dumars made the decision to rebuild completely. So, it seems, to fully evaluate this trade, we will have to wait and see how we will be able to use our cap room.

Now, all of the above is continent on teh assumption that we are trying to win it all. If the name of the game is to go deep in the playoff, then I agree that this trade was terrible.

[THE PISTONS]

Hmmm Cavs interested in Chandler? Can they add a player during a championship run? lol.