[tin mad dog]

I can't recall one, as far as on the court production goes.

Even with The Canswer, we were (barely) a Playoff team.

Even the malcontents of last year, there were still the occasional wins and T-Mac actually played some good ball for about 2 months.

Even when THE TEAL CuRSE was raging, we got that Flaming Horsie into May.

Gerald Glass played on a better squad.

I really didn't follow what went on before 1981-82 so help me out if Dickie V or anyone before him led a team that was worse.

They way we are playing, 10 wins seems to be the over/under. We look beaten and tired. Things may get a little better when BenGo gets back but I am not so sure.

I see is there is some light at the end of the tunnel.
I am trying not to focus on wins and losses and look to the future but, wow, we are brutal at times.

[Kstat]

The 2009 OKC Thunder with Westbrook and Durant started 3-29. Westbrook shot under %40 from the floor, %27 from 3 and had a 1.6 assist/turnover ratio.

Just because we cant win games for shit right now doesn't mean we don't have a promising future.

[hack]

You might be right, TMD. It's hard to remember those teal days but this has to be up there.

[Kstat]

the 1994 team after laimbeer retired was really, really hard to watch. We had stretches of 1-19 and 1-15. Sean Elliot was well into operation shutdown, and our front line after Lambs and Polynice left was Cadillac Anderson and Terry Mills.

The one bright spot that year was Joe D at the end of his prime willing us to a couple spectacular road wins in Seattle and Phoenix.

[B.I.G.]

That was 1993 when they went 20-62, 1994 was the year we got Grant Hill and won 8 more games.

[Lou Stefanic]

Originally Posted by Lou Stefanic

I'm optimistic about a lot of guys on this team. But right now, I look around the league, and I can't say that there are five teams that are certainly going to be worse than us.

Right now, only Charlotte has a worse record. I'm pleased to a degree because I want the pick, but all the losing is hard to watch.

[tin mad dog]

Originally Posted by Kstat

Just because we cant win games for shit right now doesn't mean we don't have a promising future.

Never said anything different.

[Lou Stefanic]

On the flip side, this draft kinda feels like the 2003 draft. Would hate to get burned twice like that.

[tin mad dog]

Originally Posted by hack

You might be right, TMD. It's hard to remember those teal days but this has to be up there.

We at least had Grant Hill for all but the last year of that awful-looking era.

[hack]

Originally Posted by Lou Stefanic

On the flip side, this draft kinda feels like the 2003 draft. Would hate to get burned twice like that.

Who is the Darko? I'm betting it's Drummond unless he's dominating by the end of the year. If he's not the consensus #1, with that body, something's off.

[Kstat]

Originally Posted by B.I.G.

That was 1993 when they went 20-62, 1994 was the year we got Grant Hill and won 8 more games.

....no.

the 1994 season was the hunter/houston rookie class. 1995 was grant hill.

[Lou Stefanic]

Originally Posted by hack

Who is the Darko? I'm betting it's Drummond unless he's dominating by the end of the year. If he's not the consensus #1, with that body, something's off.

If we knew who the Darko was in advance, he wouldn't be the Darko. If that makes any sense.

But it's not hard for me to imagine a scenario where you're right. We take Drummond because of his size, he becomes a marginal player, while guys like Gilchrist and Barnes become dominant wings. I've seen that script before.

[Mel Kiper Jr]

Originally Posted by Kstat

The 2009 OKC Thunder with Westbrook and Durant started 3-29. Westbrook shot under %40 from the floor, %27 from 3 and had a 1.6 assist/turnover ratio.

Just because we cant win games for shit right now doesn't mean we don't have a promising future.

I don't see Kevin Durant on our roster. I also don't see a Russell Westbrook caliber athlete. Nor, do I see James Harden.

We have essentially 2 promising players, but their top-end potential probably isn't star. Maybe we land that guy in the draft? Maybe not.

[hack]

I didn't get that comment either. Perhaps we do have a promising future, but that doesn't rule out talk about how this team ranks with other terrible Pistons teams.

[Billl]

Unless you are just going by record, "worse" is subjective. Personally, I like rooting for this current team more than last year. They do a lot of stupid things to lose games, but the effort level is 10 times better and there is more young talent to be hopeful about.

[hack]

If we were just going by record there would be no potential for discussion.

[Mel Kiper Jr]

I'd say that because of the way the lottery is setup that basically every bad team in the league has a certain amount of young talent.

In Washington they are probably having a similar debate about hope and having John Wall. The Bobcats have some young talent. The reality is that some of these teams will be bad for a long time. Hopefully it isn't us.

It seems really hard to pull yourself out of the cellar in the NBA. Yeah you get the higher picks, but many years there isn't elite talent. Also, when you don't have talent, it's harder to make trades. Plus, good teams get good free agents to come at a discount.

[ThaMaestro]

This team is easier to watch than last years team. They suck and suck bad, but I can sit through some games and not hate the team. Last season I hated that team and even with Monroe had trouble stomaching them.

As far as how we stack up with the bottom feeders of the league. I think Washington is has the pieces to become a real team the fastest, With the right moves and the talent that they have, they should be able to draft and trade assets and get a quality team out of it. John Wall is the best talent on any of the bottom dwellers and they have other talent on that team that will help them either through trade or growth.

I think we are next after Washington. though. We have solid pieces in Monroe, Knight and JJ. We may or may not have trade able assets outside of them, but that's a good base to add pieces through the draft and FA.

Charlotte and NO seems to be several years and a lot of talent away from turning it around.

[Mel Kiper Jr]

I have to give it to the Bobcats...losing 112-68 to Portland shows a commitment to losing.

We may have lucked out not getting Biyombo.

[Stefan S]

I agree, the last team was just walking pathetic depression
a total disunity led by a guy over his head who lost control
and own by nobody, just drifting through storm in hopelessness

the guys are still frequently pathetic, but they learn to play hard and with energy and eventually they will learn to close those close games.
We also have some young guys with talent and will get another in this draft, we hope (and it is a very realistic hope even if we only have #4 pic). So, at least we have some future now. I just hope they will keep trusting Frank.

[Whiteman]

JJ will be nothing more then a role player, but a role player in the likes of a Nick Collison and how he is used on the Thunder. The real piece if Monroe so far with the hope that Knight can take another leap next year.

[B.I.G.]

Originally Posted by Kstat

....no.

the 1994 season was the hunter/houston rookie class. 1995 was grant hill.

No you're wrong 1993 was the Hunter and Houston rookie year. Grant Hill 1994 and Theo Ratliff 1995. You want to bet?

[B.I.G.]

Well if you look at is from this standpoint Hunter Houston 93-94, Grant Hill 94-95 and Ratliffe 95-96 then you're right.

[Mel Kiper Jr]

So I know the common thought is that we need to get a big man through the draft because our rebounding is ranked last in the league.

BUT, say we don't get the #1 pick...IF we thought there was a SF who could average 20+ ppg, maybe that is the route to go? Then get the PF/C in the next draft? That is unless we are fairly certain the 2nd best PF would be adequate.

We'd then have pretty good quality at PG/SG/SF/C.

It just seems like going big over small in the NBA is a lesson that seems to be taught frequently to NBA teams that pick high.

[B.I.G.]

If we don't get the number 1 pick, Barnes absolutely has to be 2nd. He'll average 20pts a game, maybe not his rookie year but his sophomore year.

[Billl]

We don't have a good enough player at any position that we should consider drafting anything other than BPA. Fortunately most of the top players this year are frontcourt guys.

[Kstat]

I don't know if I'd include Barnes in my top 3, and I love Barnes.

Davis, Drummond, MKG and Sullinger are all on my wish list above Barnes. Drummond worries me the most and would largely be a potential pick, but I'm thrilled about the other three.

[Jangul]

For a man with his gifts, I don't see the domination in Drummond that would lead me to believe he'll be better when those physical advantages are diminished somewhat at the next level. I'd take Robinson over Drummond.

[Kstat]

well, technically he'd have more freedom at the next level because of the faster pace, better spacing and decrease in zone defenses. But the point stands.

Robinson is a heck of a talent, but he's also a tweener. Everyone else in the top 6-7 has a defined position.

[hack]

Agreed about Drummond -- thus far it doesn't add up. Disagree that Robinson's a tweener. Seems 6-8 is an absolute minimum for his height (one report had 6-10 in shoes at one of the camps/competitions/whatever they are), and while his arms aren't freakishly long there is indeed a wingspan boost, and he's an above-the-rim type. Plus if he's a legit 240 at age 20, he has the body. My question about Robinson is what kind of PF he's gonna be. Davis has a core skill in shotblocking. Henson too. Sullinger's identity is always going to be based on his low-post scoring. With Robinson it's not clear yet, to me, where he'll hang his hat.

That could be a plus or minus considering with any of these guys the question is how they fit with Monroe.

[ghandi]

The Pistons really need 3 things to improve: Someone who can defend the rim, someone who can really board, and someone who can get 20 a night consistently.....That most likely is more than one player but I think we all know that......They may be able to fill one of those roles with a veteran though they have not found one in several seasons (kinda like when we got Rasheed)

[Forsh]

I wish Brandon Knight could be as good as Kyrie Irving, but i guess if the fact that he isn't means we get a great big in the draft i can live with it.

[Dave Bing]

All things equal, would you want Kinght and Drummond (2nd pick) or Irving and Terrence Ross (11th pick)?

[Orwellian O.]

The current team is pretty watchable. Last year's team was a nightmare.

I was too young during the Teal era to care how bad the Pistons were...

[Mel Kiper Jr]

Originally Posted by Dave Bing

All things equal, would you want Kinght and Drummond (2nd pick) or Irving and Terrence Ross (11th pick)?

With Irving, I'd say we are probably still one of the worst 7 teams in the league. So it would be Irving and Sullinger or Perry Jones...someone like that.

[papalawrence]

Fwiw the Pistons teams during the couple years before Isiah arrived were awful. Two years before they were 16-66, the year before 21-61 -- that was during the McAdoo fiasco years. I much prefer watching this team to those.

[Money23]

I still don't find this team as irritating to watch as the past season's squad OR the 20-62 team of 1993-94, even with Isiah (who missed 25 games and averaged 3+ turnovers to his 6+ assists). Next to last in defensive rating, 3rd to last in offensive rating. Olden Polynice clocked 37 minutes per game and shot 45% from the FT line. A half-interested Sean Elliot. Mark Macon getting run despite a 39% shooting clip. Lam missing 71 games. It was really hard to watch those guys, partially because the quality of basketball was putrid, but partially because the Bad Boys had just dwindled down so much. You just knew it was destroying Zeke to lose all of those games after playing at such a high level for such a long period of time.

With this team there is at least hope for the future and occasional flashes of brilliance, and the same with the subsequent 94-95 Grant Hill team that only won 28 games and featured Rafael Addison getting WAAAAAAY too many minutes.

[Money23]

Originally Posted by Kstat

the 1994 team after laimbeer retired was really, really hard to watch. We had stretches of 1-19 and 1-15. Sean Elliot was well into operation shutdown, and our front line after Lambs and Polynice left was Cadillac Anderson and Terry Mills.

The one bright spot that year was Joe D at the end of his prime willing us to a couple spectacular road wins in Seattle and Phoenix.

Mills was actually pretty decent. He was one of the VERY few players shooting a high percentage from the field. He just didn't play much defense.

[Money23]

How about this...with the knowledge that we have Brandon Knight, would anyone trade Greg Monroe for John Wall? I wouldn't. I think Monroe type players have actually become more scarce. He has Duncan potential, offensively, with the soft touch around the basket, variety of post moves and passing ability. He's a very efficient player and seems to have a lot of passion to win bubbling under the surface.

[niffla2]

I don't think I would either, Money. A true, low post big who gives you 16/10 in just his second year. That is very, very impressive. Bigs like that don't grow on trees, obviously.

[tin mad dog]

Originally Posted by Orwellian O.

The current team is pretty watchable. Last year's team was a nightmare.

I was too young during the Teal era to care how bad the Pistons were...

Who else was surprised by this? I thought OO was older than Lou.

[tin mad dog]

Originally Posted by Money23

I still don't find this team as irritating to watch as the past season's squad OR the 20-62 team of 1993-94, even with Isiah (who missed 25 games and averaged 3+ turnovers to his 6+ assists). Next to last in defensive rating, 3rd to last in offensive rating. Olden Polynice clocked 37 minutes per game and shot 45% from the FT line. A half-interested Sean Elliot. Mark Macon getting run despite a 39% shooting clip. Lam missing 71 games. It was really hard to watch those guys, partially because the quality of basketball was putrid, but partially because the Bad Boys had just dwindled down so much. You just knew it was destroying Zeke to lose all of those games after playing at such a high level for such a long period of time.

With this team there is at least hope for the future and occasional flashes of brilliance, and the same with the subsequent 94-95 Grant Hill team that only won 28 games and featured Rafael Addison getting WAAAAAAY too many minutes.

Maybe I blacked that all out. Did we have as many 20 point losses that year?

[Mel Kiper Jr]

That year didn't happen to me. I don't live in Detroit and it was before the Internet was popular.

Really when we traded for Stackhouse, I remember being on this new thing...the Internet in high school reading about it. Funny how times change.

[alias gym rat]

Hey Money, Wasn't the 1993-94 year the last for Isiah's pro career? What sticks in my mind is the fact that on the very last play, in the last game in his professional career, Isiah tore his Achilles. It all sucked!

[ghandi]

One saving grace for the Pistons this year is it appears that there are quite a few really bad teams......IT looks like the league is pretty much the haves and have nots now.....With msot of hte star players only wanting to play for a small number of teams the league will probably stay taht way for a long time unless there is a huge talent infusion from the college and foreign ranks.

[Lou Stefanic]

The saving grace for this year is the abbreviated season. It makes it less excruciating to root for a higher draft pick when you know you don't have to do it for very long.

[hack]

Indeed. I was hoping for an even shorter season.

[Mel Kiper Jr]

Can someone rename this thread "The quest for .500"?

[tin mad dog]

Well, a 4 game winning streak may put things on hold here but we are beating the crap of the crap so I am keeping things in perspective.

Still, with JJ off the bench and the return of Gordo, we are looking a little more like an NBA team. We also beat the crap out of the crap of the crap, so that says something, I think. Does it?

Gerald Glass, your legacy may be safe.....

[Dave Bing]

You are what your record says you are.