[tin mad dog]

I didn't realize he's averaging about 6.5 turnovers a game as a starter. That's nuts.

Still, it sure would've been nice if we'd picked him up during training camp, after the Rockets dumped him or offered Will Bynum for him a month ago... or.....or...

[Stefan S]

Sports Guy devotes entire column to e-mails concerning Lin (and other related issues, frequently LeBron, too):

...
Q: Doesn't LeBron James have to be kicking himself watching Jeremy Lin light up Madison Square Garden? LeBron could be the man lighting up the Garden, and he would be legendary for revitalizing basketball in New York! If he was ever to question his "Decision," you'd think it would be on the night Lin put up 38 and drew "MVP!" chants against the Lakers.
— Casey, Dell Rapids, S.D.

SG: Poor LeBron — he really does get blamed for everything. Although you're tapping into the single most important point of Linsanity … something that, from a "shaping the history of the league" standpoint, probably transcends anything Jeremy Lin will do for the Knicks. You know, unless he wins three titles or something. Let's keep going.

Q: Isn't what's currently going on with Jeremy Lin in New York the ultimate example of why Lebron should have signed there? The kid had a few good games and now OWNS the biggest city in America. Imagine what Lebron could have done there ... I know it's beating a dead horse at this point, but what a cop out.
— Steve, London, U.K.

SG: It's not beating a dead horse. It's a crucial point. One more e-mail on this …

Q: Do you see how the Garden is electric with Jeremy Lin? He's a legend in NY in less than 2 weeks. That's what LeBron never realized. If he came to The NYK every single game would be like that. We as a city are so starved for basketball success that if he brought us a championship he would have been a Greek god in NYC just walking along with the mortals. I hate LeBron.
— KDubb, Queens, N.Y.

SG: You shouldn't hate LeBron. You should hate the judgment/instincts/business acumen of his "advisors" (the numbskulls who pushed him toward Miami and/or didn't talk him out of it); how he walked away from the single biggest basketball challenge (winning a championship with the star-crossed Knicks, which would have made him immortal); his bizarre choice to play with his biggest rival over trying to beat him (who does that???); the fact that he played in Madison Square Garden FOR SIX SEVEN STRAIGHT SEASONS without realizing there's a different energy in that building (????); or this current NBA culture in which people look at themselves as "brands" instead of "basketball players" and make every decision accordingly (and ironically, no decision for LeBron's "brand" would have been better than LeBron saving the Knicks).

Look, I love the Lin story — I can't get enough of it. I have been following the NBA my entire life; it's always the other leagues that had Fernandomania, Fidrych or Teeeeeee-bowwwwwwwww! Basketball isn't supposed to have surprises like this. On a basketball court, talent always wins out no matter what game you're watching. It happens at every level — whether you're playing pickup, high school ball, intramurals, college ball, D-League, whatever. You always know who the best player is; you can always tell substance from sizzle; you can always differentiate the gamers from the frauds; and even when we have a late NBA bloomer (like, say, Bruce Bowen), it's always someone who clearly had an elite skill, then figured out how to augment it with just enough other stuff to become a valuable player. People don't come out of nowhere in the NBA. That's why Billy Ray Bates was the go-to reference these past seven days — what else were you going to say? Even someone like Ben Wallace (a more modern example of a normal "late NBA bloomer") excelled as a bench player for Washington before exploding for Orlando.

What's happening with Lin right now? Unprecedented. I have never seen it before — shit, I've never even seen a homeless man's version of it before. And we're going to hit some of my favorite things about his ascent throughout this mailbag. Just know that LeBron's shadow lingers over all of it. He could have owned New York, and more important, he should have owned New York. There was — literally — no reason that it shouldn't have happened other than greed, hubris and (I hate to say it) just a hint of cowardice. I refuse to believe that, after playing in that building in front of those fans for seven years, it didn't dawn on LeBron that he could have been immortal in New York. How could someone not see that? My friend Lewis (a die-hard Lakers fan) went to Friday's Lakers-Knicks game as well as Game 7 of the 2010 Finals — he said that the crowds were identical. Think about that. Chew on it. That's what LeBron James passed up. And I'll bet anything that, at some point in his life, he's going to regret it.

...

The All-Linsanity Mailbag - Grantland

[tin mad dog]

That's somewhat of a good argument but I don't think NY has embraced Melo the way they've embraced Lin (hard to say exactly, since I wasn't here last year) and there are already people here that have turned on Melo.

I know he's a couple of rungs down from LeBron but Melo is still a top 10-15 talent in his prime and was probably viewed the same way the fans would've viewed LeBron.

Part of the reason why Lin has been embraced in NY is because there were ZERO expectations of him. That wouldn't have been the case with LeBron.

[Hobbs]

Melo is roughly 1/3 as good as LeBron (if that). Melo may have top 15 talent (I don't think he does, but whatever), but he's nowhere near that good as a player. He's a middling efficiency chucker who is allergic to defense.

The expectation thing is the key and so is the fact that LeBron would have a shell of a team in NY if he had gone there. Stoudemire is a decent player, but he's less than Bosh even and that's before we get to Wade. I know NY would look a bit different with Bron and instead of Melo, but it wouldn't look as good as Miami now no matter what.

So, sure, Bron would be NY famous in NY but that's about it.

[tin mad dog]

NY would've had some complimentary talent in Galinari (although at the same position) and Wilson Chandler. I'm not sure who they'd have a PG. Wasn't Felton signed with money that would've gone to LBJ?) but not another top 5 guy like Wade and Bosh/Stoud is kind of a wash.

It's pretty clear that it should've been either Chicago or Miami. Even going to NJ would've given him a better team to be around.

Going to NY would've been more of a "The LeBron Brand" move more than anywhere else that was available.

[papalawrence]

Rough analogy, but I think you'll get what I mean when I say:

LeBron = Magic Johnson

Melo = Dominique Wilkens

Imho not even close.

I think the that email response is right on.

[tin mad dog]

Do you think that's how Knicks fans saw Melo when he was traded here, as just a consolation prize or did they think he was a very good consolation prize?

I think the later. I think they probably thought he made them a top 3 team in the East.

[DYNOMITE]

So did ESPN.

[papalawrence]

Originally Posted by tin mad dog

Do you think that's how Knicks fans saw Melo when he was traded here, as just a consolation prize or did they think he was a very good consolation prize?

I think the later. I think they probably thought he made them a top 3 team in the East.

I think with the combo of Amare they (and others) thought they would be in the top tier of the East. But both of those two have holes in their games. Imho Melo is quite one dimensional. And neither are defensive stoppers. I'm still very curious to see how he coexists with Lin.

[tin mad dog]

Me too. To his credit, according to NY Spots radio, Melo was the one who suggested to D'antoni that he should start Lin.

Speaking of the Linsanity, I walked into a small sports bar today with about 8 minutes left in the Knicks game. The place was packed and going nuts. A guy I've never met high-fived me as I walked through the door.

[Lou Stefanic]

If Lin had started this a month earlier, he'd probably be starting in the All-Star Game next week. They still allow votes from Chinese fans, right?

[Kstat]

still a tough sell, since they wont show Lin in China....

[niffla2]

28 points, 14 assists vs Dallas in a W

[Mel Kiper Jr]

So what do people think about all of his turnovers?

[Kstat]

who cares? He scores a nightly 20+ points an 10+ assists.

Grant Hill was always near the top of the NBA in turnovers. It happens when you handle the ball that much. As long as you're producing at a superstar clip, it's well worth 5-6 turnovers.

[mn3]

I still think he'll come back to earth somewhat. 8 games is not a big enough sample.

There are a couple things NBA teams will learn to exploit. First, even though he's 23 years old, this kid struggles going to his left. I would have thought he'd have worked to remedy that by now. He's not a good long range shooter at all -- 28% from distance. He's 75% from the line - decent, but not strong for a PG. Teams are going to start playing off him, because of his excellent first step, and ability to be physical when driving. And they're going to force him left when they do guard him more closely.

Coming out of college, the scouting reports were that he's not a great athlete. His wingspan is not good for a 6'3" guy. (6'5"). And the scouting reports suggested he's not a great ballhandler. Lin doesn't have the supreme athleticism that guys like Rose and Westbrook have. He doesn't have Knight's shooting ability or footspeed or wingspan.

Lin's basketball IQ, competitiveness and overall savvy were underrated factors in his professional evaluation, and it's clear that NBA teams value them quite a bit.

Extremely tough around the basket and showing a very good understanding of his how to use screens and subtle changes of direction to turn the corner off the dribble, Lin won't land on a highlight reel any time soon, but he gets the job done in the D-League. Knocking down a couple of jumpers over the course of the week at the Showcase, it will be important for Lin to improve his ability to make shots from beyond the arc, especially with his unorthodox shooting mechanics.

The biggest knock on Lin from a NBA perspective is his lack of ideal physical tools for the defensive end. He fared well in the two games we saw on South Padre Island, but his below average wingspan and lateral quickness will be bigger concerns against the more athletic and talented offensive players he'd come across on a nightly basis in NBA play.

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz1mtmjZM5U
DraftExpress - NBA Draft, NCAA/International Basketball Website.

I'm not saying he's not a good player. I think he is going to turn out o.k. But he's playing on a high right now - his confidence is sky high. It's too soon to say a guy with some issues as an athlete, and with some clear potentially exploitable weaknesses, is going to be an all-star who can lead the Knicks to championships. I don't think, for example that he's in Rubio's class - he certainly cannot pass like Rubio, and he's not a better shooter, statistically, than Rubio. Rubio is also a better defensive player. He's bigger and has a great wingspan.

[papalawrence]

While I agree that 8 games is not a big enough sample to show what type of player he will be for the long haul, it is still 8 NBA games. A player might have a fluke big game or two, but not 8. I think he is the real deal, and I could see him sustain 17-18 pts and 7-9 assists. We'll see.

I'm guessing his confidence is really hi right now. We'll see how that plays out through his first prolonged shooting slump, which will happen at some point. I believe confidence is huge in the NBA, especially for shooters.

[niffla2]

He's no John Wall athletically (obviously), but he's fine as an athlete. His repeated drives to the basket under duress (and converting) show that, I would think.

And to be honest, a lot of these "scouting reports" are better off in a trash can. I mean how many times do we get enamored with scout takes on guys (wing span, leaping ability, how quickly a guy can blow by an orange cone, etc.) who end up busting hard while other guys with knock after knock do well or excel in the NBA.

Playing basketball when the lights come on. That's what matters.

[Kstat]

sports science did a piece on Lin the other day, and Lin's first step is basically on par with john wall. His spin move is comparable to Derrick Rose, and his release is a little quicker than Ray Allen's.

[Kstat]

I also find it laughable whenever newman stresses caution about any young player on another team.

If Knight had 2 games in a row like this, he'd be putting him in Springfield. Aside from that, he's just parroting other inaccurate or outdated criticisms of Lin.

FYI for everyone, newman doesn't think Cam Newton is any good, either. I think he still believes the jury is out on LeBron James, too.

Meanwhile, Austin Daye is a future all-star just waiting to emerge.

[mn3]

I doubt anyone who posts here (or anywhere) and who has had opinions on players has a perfect track record for his analyses.

So - all the personal attacks on me aside, would you take Lin or Rubio? For that matter, how would you rank Lin, Rubio, Irving, Knight, Walker, projecting 3 seasons from now? What are their strengths and weaknesses?

How will any of these guys stack up against Rose, Westbrook, CP3 and maybe even Wall, when each of them is in their prime? Right now, I'm thinking that a few seasons from now - Lin will be a good player. How good? I don't know. But if forced to make a prediction right now, I'd predict he'd be ranked near the bottom of all those players.

[The King]

RUBIO all day.

Rubio, Irving, Knight, Lin, Walker.

[Kstat]

Originally Posted by mn3

Right now, I'm thinking that a few seasons from now - Lin will be a good player.

Have you been paying attention? Lin is a good player NOW. Not a few seasons from now, NOW.

I'm not saying your track record isn't flawless. I'm saying it's so hopelessly biased that you are incapable of rendering an objective opinion.

[Kstat]

For the record, Lin and Rubio are in a virtual tie for me.

Lin is a better scorer, Rubio is a better passer. It really depends on what your team needs.

Knight is physically more athletic than either guy but does not possess the natural feel for the position. He's never going to be a great pure point, but the guy I constantly compare him to (tony parker) wasn't either. He's also got the best potential as an on-ball defender.

Walker is the best pure scorer of the four, but he's the worst defender and is incapable of directing an offense. He's got a niche in the NBA as a scoring machine, but needs a very specific team around him in order to thrive.

[The King]

The post indicates 3 years from now. Knight will be a better player than Lin.

[DYNOMITE]

I remember touting Lin his freshman season. I repeatedly suggested we should draft him. I even predicted a string of 20-10 games. It is all at Worldcrossing if you want to check it out.

[Kstat]

Originally Posted by The King

The post indicates 3 years from now. Knight will be a better player than Lin.

I was commenting on the post above you.

[mn3]

Originally Posted by Kstat

Have you been paying attention? Lin is a good player NOW. Not a few seasons from now, NOW.

I'm not saying your track record isn't flawless. I'm saying it's so hopelessly biased that you are incapable of rendering an objective opinion.

I am paying attention. I think a few years from now Lin will be considered a good player. He's got legitimate talent.

My point is that he's going to come to earth. Right now he's playing like a HOF player, and I doubt he'll maintain that level. He's just not , historically, a good shooter. Even now, his shooting percentages aren't great - he's .323 on 3pt shots.

That said, he is on a team that's loaded with other great offensive talent - so when Melo gets back, combined with Amare and now Smith and Landry, that team has the potential to be unbelievable offensively. Lin running that offense is a huge improvement for them - given they had nobody capable of playing PG. I'm not sure what all that means for Lin's performance. He'll end up taking way fewer shots. However on a D'Antonio team, Lin might get to control the ball all the time, ala Nash.

He sure is rising to the moment though. I haven't seen anything like this since the Bird took the baseball world by storm.

[Mainevent]

Lin's basically learning how to play the Steve Nash role in Dantoni's offense on the fly. He's got the ball in his hands 80% of the time and is being asked to run an offense that doesn't rely on a lot of set plays and with a lineup that's been changing game to game in some cases. High turnovers are to be expected.

What you would expect though, is as the lineup stabilizes, as he plays more and learns to deal better with the traps on pick and rolls, that those TOs will decline, but you're still probably looking at 3-4 a game in a best case scenario.

[mn3]

Originally Posted by Mainevent

Lin's basically learning how to play the Steve Nash role in Dantoni's offense on the fly. He's got the ball in his hands 80% of the time and is being asked to run an offense that doesn't rely on a lot of set plays and with a lineup that's been changing game to game in some cases. High turnovers are to be expected.

What you would expect though, is as the lineup stabilizes, as he plays more and learns to deal better with the traps on pick and rolls, that those TOs will decline, but you're still probably looking at 3-4 a game in a best case scenario.

That's the thing -- he came into PT with the permission to just let 'er rip. My skeptisism about him is that so far he hasn't had to think very much. Maybe he'll never have to inside that offensive system. But I think it's more likely that when he's asked to defer to Melo and Amare and Smith, that he'll have to start thinking about all the things that PG's have to think about. When that happens, I expect his play to level off some.

[DYNOMITE]

Adding Melo to the game plan will definitely effect Lin's numbers and play.

[tin mad dog]

Hulu - Saturday Night Live: Cold Opening: Linsanity Postgame

[Jeff Hause]

Lin makes me even more depressed that I live in Warrior country. Although I guess I shouldn't be too upset they didn't keep yet another midget guard...

[tin mad dog]

6'3" is not bad for a PG.

[Jeff Hause]

That's true. He wasn't that impressive in GS. The only times I'd see him play were in blowouts, and he never did much. It was just assumed he was picked up because he was a local guy, and nobody expected or asked for him to do much...

[Kstat]

I can't wait until Jeremy Lin unveils his tiger claw technique...

[Orwellian O.]

Lin's parents aren't from China (mainland). I thought they were from Taiwan (continuation of pre 1940s, Chinese government)?


Why would the Chinese care about Lin? That is like Americans caring about a Canadian (if Canada was a country we constantly threatened to invade & Russia was selling Canada advanced weapons technology in preparation for war).

[King Mob]