Trade for Chris Paul? Why didn't we think of that! - Page 4

hack · 06-03-2009, 01:10 PM

Thanks for the warning.

Jeff Hause · 06-03-2009, 01:29 PM

I'm not worried -- you won't follow it, you'll continue to debate your lunatic conclusions with everybody else, and I'll still be able to make fun of you...

hack · 06-03-2009, 01:45 PM

You will continue to refuse to debate things in my preferred manner, and so I will continue to beat you at your own game enough of the time for it to be embarrassing for you.

Jeff Hause · 06-03-2009, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hack

You will continue to refuse to debate things in my preferred manner.

Which is what, denial?

The King · 06-03-2009, 03:38 PM

"I never said I admire Vince Carter"

Whatever. You were all on his nuts.

Money23 · 06-04-2009, 02:07 AM

No, his nuts were all over Frederick Weiss and Tim Duncan.

Money23 · 06-04-2009, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hack

You're saying one year with Isiah's Marbury-led roster casts doubt on decades of excellence? Geez -- if you gave LB the benefit of the doubt even a third as much as you do Flip, you'd be nominating the guy for sainthood by now.

No, that's bullshit. I was 100% behind LB. He's the one that betrayed his team. Benefit of the doubt could even have extended, but he did the same damn thing to Philly, then he helped the Knicks to one of the most embarrassing seasons a team has ever had. Just wondering what your take is on that. You don't have to answer it, obviously.

Money23 · 06-04-2009, 02:22 AM

Looking back, of course Rob was insane for his "Coach Cuz" shit, and rarely right...but this is prophetic:

"..LB is a nuerotic flake, who's gonna be somebody ELSE'S nuerotic flake in about 10-12 months, thankfully."

Anyway, start here Detroit Pistons' Palace - WHAT A GREAT COACHING JOB BY LB!!! and read the exchange. I clearly was in LB's corner.

Hell, hack...you were more critical of him in that thread than I was. You even agreed with Rob that we came out unprepared in the playoffs.

hack · 06-04-2009, 02:24 AM

I just did. Perhaps the answer was as unsatisfying to you as your bad word choice and inability to explain your double-standards. But I'll answer it, again, in full -- LB's been among the sport's best coaches and brightest minds roughly since you and I were born. He has a list of accomplishments as long as anyone's. Because he's not Phil Jackson, the Gary Payton of Coaching, that list is not long on rings but on developmental triumphs like taking slugs like the Nets to the playoffs, or taking over sub-500 teams midseason and getting them into the playoffs. And there's also the legacy of NCAA excellence. You're talking about a time span that covers roughly 2% of his post-playing career, spent with a roster that was the laughing stock of the league and a star who was later benched and bought out. It seems pretty clearly that LB tried to undermine Isiah and take control of roster moves as well, but lost that power struggle. When that happened the players turned on him and his ways, which must have been shock therapy after so many years of bad basketball habits. And there's no doubt LB himself wasn't at his best. For a while I was thinking he'd gone loopy and was sorta done as a good coach, but Charlotte may prove me wrong on that. Either way, it's not hard to see why it was an anomalous year, and using it to call into question the rest of his career is ludicrous.

Money23 · 06-04-2009, 02:30 AM

LOL, WOW! You've gotten downright patronizing in this discussion, sir. Perhaps my answers and word choices have been unsatisfactory TO YOU. Personally, I'm fine with them. You've been fairly condescending over the past few debates. Hope I used "condescending" in a way you can agree with. Maybe I'm looking for a different word that you can clue me in on.

Still love you, tho.

Money23 · 06-04-2009, 02:31 AM

BTW, he's been a good/great coach for a long time, sure...but he's pretty much always been a bit loopy.

hack · 06-04-2009, 02:42 AM

You're working an obvious and stupid double standard, and explaining away accusations using ``duh! it's obvious'' as your best defense (whereas in the past you've given me grief for not backing assertions). You're demanding an answer you already know, but can't give me the same in return to legit questions. What do you expect? Adoration? Maybe if you backed the shit you could back, dropped what you can't, and picked words for their accuracy instead of choosing ones that might get a reaction, you'd do better. You already had my attention, Money. You didn't need to hold it by being outlandish.

Money23 · 06-04-2009, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hack

You're working an obvious and stupid double standard, and explaining away accusations using ``duh! it's obvious'' as your best defense (whereas in the past you've given me grief for not backing assertions). You're demanding an answer you already know, but can't give me the same in return to legit questions. What do you expect? Adoration? Maybe if you backed the shit you could back, dropped what you can't, and picked words for their accuracy instead of choosing ones that might get a reaction, you'd do better. You already had my attention, Money. You didn't need to hold it by being outlandish.

Wow...not much better, eh? I'm very disappointed in this exchange from you. You aren't working as hard as you used to to keep our discussions civil and on track. (J/K...channeling you)

You weren't confused by what I meant by "undermine". Stop playing dumb. I explained it immediately. If you want to end a discussion because you're hung up on a word, that's fine. But you're being intellectually dishonest, and it's getting annoying.

Money23 · 06-04-2009, 03:03 AM

OK, in the interest of the GAG I will attempt to explain it in a way that you will deem favorable.

The simple answer is that I honestly and truly don't think it's a double standard.

1) Michael Jordan's off-court actions are different than his on-court ones. Chuck Berry's sexual deviations don't reflect how good "Johnny B. Goode" sounds coming out of the radio.

2) Michael Jordan never became a negative distraction to his team during a game seven.

3) Larry Brown made some of the worst decisions ever during a Finals series.

4) Larry Brown was an, ahem, "major distraction" to the team he was supposed to be leading during a Finals series.

5) Larry Brown coached MY favorite team, the one I have emotional ties to.

6) Vince Carter is not a Piston. He's a guy who throws down exquisite dunks and I love to watch them.

All future inquiries about my perceived double standards will be directed to this post. The answers are there, they're what I believe to be true, and they're simple and to the point...just like Mark Twain would have wanted.

hack · 06-04-2009, 03:09 AM

In the other thread you say something compeletely different, and in this one, I'm being intellectually dishonest? WTF?

Money23 · 06-04-2009, 05:13 AM

How can you possibly be surprised that I'm finally reacting to your condescension when you've been patronizing (and subsequently taking the actual discussion off-track) for post after post? WTF yourself?

Check it out: I gave pretty much the same reasons in post 166 from the word go, right down to the Chuck Berry reference. In return:

"I have a feeling we're about done on this one." (60 something posts ago)

"Scoreboard, Money -- that's where you find the answers."

"I am wondering if Money's argument is based on a palm reading, or some sorta Hallowe'en night oman or ghost sighting. The argument got loopier and less connected as things progressed."

"you should pay attention to what I say if we're going to have discussions."

"Yes, I think we're done."

"Lastly, undermine is the wrong word for what you want to say" ("Lastly" was clearly the wrong word there)

"it's disppointing to see you carry on that way"

"you're simply not bringing to this discussion the thoughtfulness it deserves."

"I really do value Money's brain, regret when it slips into Hause mode" (That one is extremely quizzical...is it because I agreed with a point Jeff made that I've made before as well? Never once called you a "moron")

It probably could have (SHOULD have) ended here:

"Fine, fair enough. Some of us would rather be happy with a yearly ECF appearance than the ups and downs we've had. To each."

I would have been cool with that.

Dave Bing · 06-04-2009, 05:20 AM

Some with intent, some without...

undermine - Google News

Chamber of Mines says illegal mining undermines industry's safety ...

Creamer Media's Mining Weekly - ‎17 hours ago‎
... place to ensure safer and healthier working conditions in the mining industry, but that illegal mining activities continued to undermine these efforts. ...

BBC News

About that bin Laden tape

msnbc.com - ‎15 hours ago‎
That said, it is not surprising that bin Laden would be issuing a tape in time to coincide with -- and try to undermine -- the president's trip. ...

Legislation would undermine Michigan's voter-approved medical ...

MLive.com - ‎Jun 2, 2009‎
They are trying to undermine the will of the voters and put medical marijuana patients in prison with new legislation. Sen. Kuipers, who opposes medical ...

ECB caution to undermine Euro

International Business Times - ‎17 hours ago‎
There will be caution ahead of Thursday"s ECB council meeting. There will be some speculation that the quantitative easing programme could be expanded while ...

ABC News

Obama: Efforts to undermine nomination will fail

Denver Post - ‎May 30, 2009‎
By Liz Sidoti AP WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama expressed confidence today that efforts to scuttle Sonia Sotomayor's nomination to the Supreme Court ...

Obama: Efforts to undermine Sotomayor will fail Detroit Free Press

Obama: Efforts to undermine Sotomayor will fail The Associated Press

US undermines claim to 'land of the free'

Globe and Mail - ‎22 hours ago‎
The economists and editors of the index warn that the turbulent events of these years "could severely undermine economic freedoms [in the US] in the future. ...

Guterres: European migration policies must not undermine refugee ...

Vereinte Nationen (UNO) - ‎15 hours ago‎
2 June 2009 – The top United Nations refugee official has called on the European Union (EU) to ensure that migration control measures do not undermine ...

Conservative Judges Echo Sotomayor in Gun Ruling

Washington Post - ‎Jun 2, 2009‎
... trying to undermine the Supreme Court's landmark decision last year holding that the amendment protects the right to own a gun for self-defense. ...

Video: Under dogWWLP.com

Worse-than-expected economic data hurts stocks

The Associated Press - ‎17 hours ago‎
Bernanke says the government needs to figure out a way to ease its massive debt load, and that failing to do so could undermine efforts to restore the ...
Wall Street stocks rise with housing recovery hopes National Business Review

Worse-than-expected economic data thwarts rally The Associated Press

hack · 06-04-2009, 06:12 AM

If you woulda been cool with that, Money, why carry on with your admittedly dramatic words? I mean, looking back, shame on me -- you prefaced one post with the caveat ``ok, not baiting, but...''. What does that say for the rest of your posts?

Bing, none without refer to people. The without ones refer to inanimates.

Jeff Hause · 06-04-2009, 01:04 PM

Find anybody who agrees with you, yet?

Money23 · 06-04-2009, 02:34 PM

I was never baiting you, it wasn't even ABOUT you, you made it that way when you changed all the Jordan references to LB. I just prefaced with that because I didn't want you to feel as if I were trying to gang up on you with anyone else. And you were MUCH more dramatic, carrying on and on about the meaning of a word and lamenting the notion that I wasn't debating on your terms.

Now, I have no idea why I keep responding. Threads have been hijacked and taken off course from any actual discussion.

Jeff Hause · 06-04-2009, 02:38 PM

You mean, like how we sucked this year, while this doofus can't stop complaining about 60-win seasons and the conference finals?

mn3 · 06-04-2009, 02:59 PM

When you use "doofus" are you using the primary definition or the second, third or fourth definition?

hack · 06-04-2009, 03:32 PM

Typically, calling you on that sorta thing brings the discussion back to health. It certainly didn't this time.

mn3 · 06-04-2009, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hack

Typically, calling you on that sorta thing brings the discussion back to health. It certainly didn't this time.

Okay, does anyone else think this is a total non-sequitur?

Jeff Hause · 06-04-2009, 03:41 PM

Does anything he says make sense anymore?

mn3 · 06-04-2009, 03:58 PM

He might make sense, but I can't tell since I'm more of a third or fourth definition specialist, and he's a strict constructionist first definitionist, so it might be like we're speaking two different languages.

The Guy · 06-04-2009, 04:17 PM

Me, I don't even know what the fuck is going on in here. There's no way I'm reading all of those huge mumbo jumbo filled posts to figure it out, either.

What the fuck does "you prefaced one post with the caveat" mean? Jesus, am I in the CNN forum?

bozo the clown · 06-04-2009, 05:17 PM

Probably a good idea.

Just remember to use the phrases "what the fuck" and "mumbo jumbo" in a precise manner.

06-04-2009, 02:22 AM	#158
Money23 Sixth Man Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: F-f-f-f-Flintown Posts: 3,941 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	Looking back, of course Rob was insane for his "Coach Cuz" shit, and rarely right...but this is prophetic: "..LB is a nuerotic flake, who's gonna be somebody ELSE'S nuerotic flake in about 10-12 months, thankfully." Anyway, start here Detroit Pistons' Palace - WHAT A GREAT COACHING JOB BY LB!!! and read the exchange. I clearly was in LB's corner. Hell, hack...you were more critical of him in that thread than I was. You even agreed with Rob that we came out unprepared in the playoffs. Last edited by Money23; 06-04-2009 at 02:32 AM.

06-04-2009, 06:12 AM	#168
hack Starter Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 11,082 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	If you woulda been cool with that, Money, why carry on with your admittedly dramatic words? I mean, looking back, shame on me -- you prefaced one post with the caveat ``ok, not baiting, but...''. What does that say for the rest of your posts? Bing, none without refer to people. The without ones refer to inanimates. Last edited by hack; 06-04-2009 at 07:27 AM.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

06-03-2009, 01:10 PM	#151
hack Starter Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 11,082 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	Thanks for the warning.

06-03-2009, 01:29 PM	#152
Jeff Hause Sixth Man Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5,717 : 0 For This Post 1 Total	I'm not worried -- you won't follow it, you'll continue to debate your lunatic conclusions with everybody else, and I'll still be able to make fun of you...

06-03-2009, 01:45 PM	#153
hack Starter Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 11,082 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	You will continue to refuse to debate things in my preferred manner, and so I will continue to beat you at your own game enough of the time for it to be embarrassing for you.

06-03-2009, 03:38 PM	#155
The King Sixth Man Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 2,900 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	"I never said I admire Vince Carter" Whatever. You were all on his nuts.

06-04-2009, 02:07 AM	#156
Money23 Sixth Man Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: F-f-f-f-Flintown Posts: 3,941 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	No, his nuts were all over Frederick Weiss and Tim Duncan.

06-04-2009, 02:24 AM	#159
hack Starter Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 11,082 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	I just did. Perhaps the answer was as unsatisfying to you as your bad word choice and inability to explain your double-standards. But I'll answer it, again, in full -- LB's been among the sport's best coaches and brightest minds roughly since you and I were born. He has a list of accomplishments as long as anyone's. Because he's not Phil Jackson, the Gary Payton of Coaching, that list is not long on rings but on developmental triumphs like taking slugs like the Nets to the playoffs, or taking over sub-500 teams midseason and getting them into the playoffs. And there's also the legacy of NCAA excellence. You're talking about a time span that covers roughly 2% of his post-playing career, spent with a roster that was the laughing stock of the league and a star who was later benched and bought out. It seems pretty clearly that LB tried to undermine Isiah and take control of roster moves as well, but lost that power struggle. When that happened the players turned on him and his ways, which must have been shock therapy after so many years of bad basketball habits. And there's no doubt LB himself wasn't at his best. For a while I was thinking he'd gone loopy and was sorta done as a good coach, but Charlotte may prove me wrong on that. Either way, it's not hard to see why it was an anomalous year, and using it to call into question the rest of his career is ludicrous.

06-04-2009, 02:30 AM	#160
Money23 Sixth Man Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: F-f-f-f-Flintown Posts: 3,941 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	LOL, WOW! You've gotten downright patronizing in this discussion, sir. Perhaps my answers and word choices have been unsatisfactory TO YOU. Personally, I'm fine with them. You've been fairly condescending over the past few debates. Hope I used "condescending" in a way you can agree with. Maybe I'm looking for a different word that you can clue me in on. Still love you, tho.

06-04-2009, 02:31 AM	#161
Money23 Sixth Man Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: F-f-f-f-Flintown Posts: 3,941 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	BTW, he's been a good/great coach for a long time, sure...but he's pretty much always been a bit loopy.

06-04-2009, 02:42 AM	#162
hack Starter Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 11,082 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	You're working an obvious and stupid double standard, and explaining away accusations using ``duh! it's obvious'' as your best defense (whereas in the past you've given me grief for not backing assertions). You're demanding an answer you already know, but can't give me the same in return to legit questions. What do you expect? Adoration? Maybe if you backed the shit you could back, dropped what you can't, and picked words for their accuracy instead of choosing ones that might get a reaction, you'd do better. You already had my attention, Money. You didn't need to hold it by being outlandish.

06-04-2009, 03:03 AM	#164
Money23 Sixth Man Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: F-f-f-f-Flintown Posts: 3,941 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	OK, in the interest of the GAG I will attempt to explain it in a way that you will deem favorable. The simple answer is that I honestly and truly don't think it's a double standard. 1) Michael Jordan's off-court actions are different than his on-court ones. Chuck Berry's sexual deviations don't reflect how good "Johnny B. Goode" sounds coming out of the radio. 2) Michael Jordan never became a negative distraction to his team during a game seven. 3) Larry Brown made some of the worst decisions ever during a Finals series. 4) Larry Brown was an, ahem, "major distraction" to the team he was supposed to be leading during a Finals series. 5) Larry Brown coached MY favorite team, the one I have emotional ties to. 6) Vince Carter is not a Piston. He's a guy who throws down exquisite dunks and I love to watch them. All future inquiries about my perceived double standards will be directed to this post. The answers are there, they're what I believe to be true, and they're simple and to the point...just like Mark Twain would have wanted.

06-04-2009, 03:09 AM	#165
hack Starter Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 11,082 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	In the other thread you say something compeletely different, and in this one, I'm being intellectually dishonest? WTF?

06-04-2009, 05:13 AM	#166
Money23 Sixth Man Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: F-f-f-f-Flintown Posts: 3,941 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	How can you possibly be surprised that I'm finally reacting to your condescension when you've been patronizing (and subsequently taking the actual discussion off-track) for post after post? WTF yourself? Check it out: I gave pretty much the same reasons in post 166 from the word go, right down to the Chuck Berry reference. In return: "I have a feeling we're about done on this one." (60 something posts ago) "Scoreboard, Money -- that's where you find the answers." "I am wondering if Money's argument is based on a palm reading, or some sorta Hallowe'en night oman or ghost sighting. The argument got loopier and less connected as things progressed." "you should pay attention to what I say if we're going to have discussions." "Yes, I think we're done." "Lastly, undermine is the wrong word for what you want to say" ("Lastly" was clearly the wrong word there) "it's disppointing to see you carry on that way" "you're simply not bringing to this discussion the thoughtfulness it deserves." "I really do value Money's brain, regret when it slips into Hause mode" (That one is extremely quizzical...is it because I agreed with a point Jeff made that I've made before as well? Never once called you a "moron") It probably could have (SHOULD have) ended here: "Fine, fair enough. Some of us would rather be happy with a yearly ECF appearance than the ups and downs we've had. To each." I would have been cool with that.

06-04-2009, 05:20 AM	#167
Dave Bing Sixth Man Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 4,790 : 0 For This Post 1 Total	Some with intent, some without... undermine - Google News Chamber of Mines says illegal mining undermines industry's safety ... Creamer Media's Mining Weekly - ‎17 hours ago‎ ... place to ensure safer and healthier working conditions in the mining industry, but that illegal mining activities continued to undermine these efforts. ... BBC News About that bin Laden tape msnbc.com - ‎15 hours ago‎ That said, it is not surprising that bin Laden would be issuing a tape in time to coincide with -- and try to undermine -- the president's trip. ... Legislation would undermine Michigan's voter-approved medical ... MLive.com - ‎Jun 2, 2009‎ They are trying to undermine the will of the voters and put medical marijuana patients in prison with new legislation. Sen. Kuipers, who opposes medical ... ECB caution to undermine Euro International Business Times - ‎17 hours ago‎ There will be caution ahead of Thursday"s ECB council meeting. There will be some speculation that the quantitative easing programme could be expanded while ... ABC News Obama: Efforts to undermine nomination will fail Denver Post - ‎May 30, 2009‎ By Liz Sidoti AP WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama expressed confidence today that efforts to scuttle Sonia Sotomayor's nomination to the Supreme Court ... Obama: Efforts to undermine Sotomayor will fail Detroit Free Press Obama: Efforts to undermine Sotomayor will fail The Associated Press US undermines claim to 'land of the free' Globe and Mail - ‎22 hours ago‎ The economists and editors of the index warn that the turbulent events of these years "could severely undermine economic freedoms [in the US] in the future. ... Guterres: European migration policies must not undermine refugee ... Vereinte Nationen (UNO) - ‎15 hours ago‎ 2 June 2009 – The top United Nations refugee official has called on the European Union (EU) to ensure that migration control measures do not undermine ... Conservative Judges Echo Sotomayor in Gun Ruling Washington Post - ‎Jun 2, 2009‎ ... trying to undermine the Supreme Court's landmark decision last year holding that the amendment protects the right to own a gun for self-defense. ... Video: Under dogWWLP.com Worse-than-expected economic data hurts stocks The Associated Press - ‎17 hours ago‎ Bernanke says the government needs to figure out a way to ease its massive debt load, and that failing to do so could undermine efforts to restore the ... Wall Street stocks rise with housing recovery hopes National Business Review Worse-than-expected economic data thwarts rally The Associated Press

06-04-2009, 01:04 PM	#169
Jeff Hause Sixth Man Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5,717 : 0 For This Post 1 Total	Find anybody who agrees with you, yet?

06-04-2009, 02:34 PM	#170
Money23 Sixth Man Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: F-f-f-f-Flintown Posts: 3,941 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	I was never baiting you, it wasn't even ABOUT you, you made it that way when you changed all the Jordan references to LB. I just prefaced with that because I didn't want you to feel as if I were trying to gang up on you with anyone else. And you were MUCH more dramatic, carrying on and on about the meaning of a word and lamenting the notion that I wasn't debating on your terms. Now, I have no idea why I keep responding. Threads have been hijacked and taken off course from any actual discussion.

06-04-2009, 02:38 PM	#171
Jeff Hause Sixth Man Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5,717 : 0 For This Post 1 Total	You mean, like how we sucked this year, while this doofus can't stop complaining about 60-win seasons and the conference finals?

06-04-2009, 02:59 PM	#172
mn3 Sixth Man Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5,510 : 0 For This Post 3 Total	When you use "doofus" are you using the primary definition or the second, third or fourth definition?

06-04-2009, 03:32 PM	#173
hack Starter Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 11,082 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	Typically, calling you on that sorta thing brings the discussion back to health. It certainly didn't this time.

06-04-2009, 03:41 PM	#175
Jeff Hause Sixth Man Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5,717 : 0 For This Post 1 Total	Does anything he says make sense anymore?

06-04-2009, 03:58 PM	#176
mn3 Sixth Man Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5,510 : 0 For This Post 3 Total	He might make sense, but I can't tell since I'm more of a third or fourth definition specialist, and he's a strict constructionist first definitionist, so it might be like we're speaking two different languages.

06-04-2009, 04:17 PM	#177
The Guy Water Boy Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 122 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	Me, I don't even know what the fuck is going on in here. There's no way I'm reading all of those huge mumbo jumbo filled posts to figure it out, either. What the fuck does "you prefaced one post with the caveat" mean? Jesus, am I in the CNN forum?

06-04-2009, 05:17 PM	#178
bozo the clown Bench Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 2,145 : 0 For This Post 0 Total	Probably a good idea. Just remember to use the phrases "what the fuck" and "mumbo jumbo" in a precise manner.