[mn3]

JD (VA)




If Shabazz is ruled ineligible to play the entire season this year, what does his draft stock look like as is?
Chad Ford(1:39 PM)





I've spoken with a number of NBA GMs and scouts about this. Every single person I spoke with believes he'd be a Top 3 pick. He could still be No. 1. Nerlens Noel is so raw and I think some GMs aren't convinced that Cody Zeller has the upside to be the No. 1 pick. So I wonder if he's not just better off hiring a personal trainer and shrugging off the NCAA. Wish more players would do it frankly. I think the NCAA is out of control ...
Drew (Indianapolis)



It's obviously a (very) small sample size, but what did you garner from the improved play of Noel/Goodwin/Poythress vs. Duke? And, more importantly - how did Jarrod Polson's no-show last night affect his draft stock?
Chad Ford(1:42 PM)




Noel and Poythress were obviously much better against Duke. You have to give both of those players time. Neither has quite the talent or confidence that Anthony Davis or MKG had. But both are really awesome prospects. I don't think we'll be able to accurately project either until March. I'm a pretty big believer in Calapari. I think you'll see them improve all year. Goodwin is the most talented right now ... once he gets his game under control, I think the Russell Westbrook comps are apt. As for Polson? He's not getting drafted.

Katie (Grand Haven, MI)



Out of the players from Duke, UK, KU and MSU who played in the Champions Classic: Did anyone jump out as possible lottery picks?
Chad Ford(1:44 PM)




Obviously the three UK freshmen -- Noel, Poythress and Goodwin are. If Mason Plumlee keeps playing like this all year, he'll be a late lottery pick. Gary Harris and Ben McLemore both have the talent to crack the lottery at some point ... but it might be next year, not this one.

Ryan (Austin)



Where does James Michael McAdoo get drafted if he keeps playing like he has started off the year?
Chad Ford(1:44 PM)




Top 5

Jason (Phoenix )



Better pro, C.Zeller or N.Noel?
Chad Ford(1:48 PM)




Today? Zeller. But scouts project and down the road Noel just has more physical abilities. His skill level isn't close to Zeller's right now. But long-term, if he works hard and gets it ... that's the dilemma of every scout. Both are Top 3 picks if the draft were held today. Zeller could contribute right now. Noel would be a project. But if you're watching Andre Drummond right now in Detroit, you understand why you could discount Noel. Drummond is playing better than he did at UConn and has the potential to be a monster in a few years.

aaron (seattle)



I know you were pretty skeptical of the quality of this draft class. Has anything changed your opinion thus far? Any surprises?
Chad Ford(1:50 PM)




Not really. But it's way too early for that. Only player that I've made some major revisions on is Alex Len of Maryland. Just think he took a major leap over the summer and at 7-1 with his skill set, he's going to be a Top 5 pick. Reminds me a little bit of a young Ilgauskas

[hack]

I don't think Gores should get rid of Joe. I still can't believe that the Joe that was so brilliant a short while ago is so stupid now. In my book, he's got another offseason before I accept that the old Joe isn't coming back.

That said, I haven't looked hard around the league at who's available at the GM slot. If there was someone and I were Gores, I would quietly take a good long look at that person.

[mn3]

You're an enigma hack. :)

[hack]

One that has gone to great lengths to explain his thought process and now would like not to be accused of posting too much. In other words, I am easily knowable if you read the forum.

[mn3]

Better pro, C.Zeller or N.Noel?
Chad Ford(1:48 PM)




Today? Zeller. But scouts project and down the road Noel just has more physical abilities. His skill level isn't close to Zeller's right now. But long-term, if he works hard and gets it ... that's the dilemma of every scout. Both are Top 3 picks if the draft were held today. Zeller could contribute right now. Noel would be a project. But if you're watching Andre Drummond right now in Detroit, you understand why you could discount Noel. Drummond is playing better than he did at UConn and has the potential to be a monster in a few years.

Drummond's development for us this year, could raise the price for a team acquiring our draft pick to select Noel.

In my early fantasy universe, where we both brilliantly develop Drummond, Monroe and Knight and trade the #1 pick in the draft - this fits right in.

[hack]

I think we should trade the top pick but keep picks 2 through 4.

[RugbyPike#11]

If we get a top 3 pick, it's only because we are destined to pick Shabazz!

[hack]

He's ineligible to play. We'll pick him up with our pick in the mid teens.

[RugbyPike#11]

If he loses his appeal to the NCAA, I would bet he goes to Europe to play and is still a top 5 pick, if not #1 overall. This isn't Brandon Jennings we're talking about, Shabazz can shoot and defend grown men, he'll get off the bench.

[mn3]

Anbody ever watch Shabazz play? Supposedly he's a Harden type player. I have no freaking idea aside from what I read on www.draftexpress.com

Jonathan Givony

Shabazz Muhammad (#1 Scout, #1 Rivals, #1 ESPN) made quite a statement at the HoopHall Classic, unequivocally showing once again why he's considered the #1 prospect in the 2012 high school class. Muhammad scored 37 points in a win over Dematha Catholic, regarded as one of the best teams in America, shooting 12 of 22 from the field and 12 of 14 from the free throw line.

Muhammad may not be the biggest or most athletic swingman we've seen at the high school level, but his combination of length, scoring instincts, aggressiveness and smarts gives him considerable upside and should allow him to make an instant impact in college next year.

A fairly complete offensive player, Muhammad can put up points in bunches from anywhere on the floor, both in transition or in the half-court. He attacks the rim relentlessly with his solid first step and finishes with authority whenever possible, showing good upper body strength taking hits in the paint and drawing fouls.

If the paint is closed off, Muhammad can pull up off the dribble smoothly with range out to the 3-point line, having the ability to just throw the ball in the basket thanks to his excellent touch.

Also a very effective post-up threat, Muhammad isn't afraid to go into the paint to find touches if the defense is overplaying him on the perimeter. He's a prolific offensive rebounder at the high school level thanks to his long wingspan, strong leaping ability, and the excellent intensity he brings on each possession, allowing him to find plenty of easy points simply by outworking the competition.

Muhammad still has room to grow as a ball-handler in the half-court, particularly with his ability to drive and finish with his right hand. This isn't much of an issue at the very up-tempo high school level, but is something teams could focus on in the future in advanced scouting reports. He isn't known as a great catch and shoot threat with his feet set either, something that we weren't able to see much of in this setting.

Muhammad displayed a very high basketball IQ in Springfield, rarely forcing the issue and willingly passing out of double teams when defenders inevitably collapsed on him. Unlike many players his age, he has no problem playing off the ball and doesn't get discouraged when things don't run through him on every possession, which is a very good trait.

Another thing scouts will like to see is the competitiveness Muhammad shows on the defensive end. He uses his length and strength effectively to stay in front of his matchup and contest shots, looking willing and able to make his presence felt here and on the glass.

While Muhammad may not possess the can't miss superstar upside of former #1 overall recruits such as Dwight Howard or LeBron James, his scoring instincts and physical and mental toughness make him a pretty safe bet to develop into a very good NBA player, along the lines of James Harden, for example. It's tough to rule out significant improvement considering his age and the productivity he's displayed thus far, so its likely too early to put a ceiling on him. We'll have to see what he looks like once he reaches the college ranks to get a better read for his true potential.

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz2CEZZukfI
DraftExpress - NBA Draft, NCAA/International Basketball Website.

[mn3]

Actually, as I read that again, he sounds kindof perfect for us. F'it. don't trade that pick if we can grab him.

[Whiteman]

I use to skip these threads from 2005-2009. Now its like who can we pick that wont start for us.

[B.I.G.]

I'm not sold on shabazz, he plays like the vocalizer.

[mn3]

From Detroit Bad Boys, Thorpe has Drummond 4 and Singler 7 in his rookie rankings. Also, Thorpe says there is major separation with his top 4 (Lillard, AD and KVG and AD) and the rest of the draftees"

In calling Drummond the biggest surprise player coming out of college, Thorpe tries to explain why a player with iffy stats is able to play so effectively:

Cut to Detroit, though, and we see him playing with energy and athleticism on almost every play. That part of the game is easier for him now in part because the floor is spaced so much better in the NBA. The game is wider now, and his teammates are pros, not teenagers. So even though the Pistons are a bad team, they still understand the importance of spacing and playing under control.
The games are also officiated tighter in the NBA, meaning Drummond can't be pushed around the same way he was in college. It's a hard concept for fans to digest, but the college game is more physical than the pro game because it is allowed to be. The men in the NBA are stronger, naturally, but the game is cleaner, which allows a player like Drummond, who has not developed "man strength" yet, to make plays inside the paint and above the rim more easily now than before.

In other words, he has been good and we should expect him to get much, much better.
In discussing Singler, Thorpe uses familiar words like "solid," "steady" and "excellent shot selection."

Detroit might be the league's worst team right now, but the Pistons have to be happy with the play of Singler. His play thus far screams "steady" and, since he has significant upside as a shooter, he looks to have a real chance at being a solid rotation player. He leads all rookies in true shooting percentage (.686) thanks to excellent shot selection. Singler is going to be part of the solution in Detroit, not part of the problem.

[Stefan S]

Pretty interesting to me as a general comment about two different games:

The games are also officiated tighter in the NBA, meaning Drummond can't be pushed around the same way he was in college. It's a hard concept for fans to digest, but the college game is more physical than the pro game because it is allowed to be. The men in the NBA are stronger, naturally, but the game is cleaner, which allows a player like Drummond, who has not developed "man strength" yet, to make plays inside the paint and above the rim more easily now than before.

Not sure if it is true as I do not follow college hoops at all.

[tin mad dog]

Originally Posted by mn3

From Detroit Bad Boys, Thorpe has Drummond 4 and Singler 7 in his rookie rankings. Also, Thorpe says there is major separation with his top 4 (Lillard, AD and KVG and AD) and the rest of the draftees"

KVG? Do you mean MKG?

[mn3]

Yes. Sorry. MKG. If KVG suddenly switches over to BB, though, I'm sure he'll race up the rookie rankings.

[mn3]

Mark (Cleveland)




How many teams are kicking themselves for bypassing Drummond in the draft? (That kid looks like he can and will become great).
Michael Wallace(3:38 PM)





Big men, more than any other guys in the league, have been horribly inconsistent the past 20 years. I like the tools Drummond has, but let's give it a little more time to see how this plays out. He's still got an awful long way to go, but I like the potential that the Drummond-Monroe frontcourt offers down the line.

[mn3]

erich (sf)




Hey Chad, could Harrison Barnes be a better Pro than college player. I always wondered when he was in college if his game was better suited for the pros and given the past four games he looks like he could be an all-rookie selection this year a maybe a future all-star.
Chad Ford(1:07 PM)





He coasted a lot in college. I think that was the biggest concern coming into the draft. There were times when he put it in a different gear, but they were inconsistent. I know the Warriors have been emphasizing to Barnes that he's not good enough to just always play in third gear at the NBA level. He seems to be responding. I'm not totally sure you can teach motor, but I do think you can address it and the Warriors seem to be working with him on his biggest weakness. If he's going to play like this consistently (and that's a big if this early in the season) they got a steal at No. 7.
Robert (Orlando)





Obviously Lillard's age has helped him be more mature and play more like a second or third year player but has he shown more upside than a lot of analysts first thought?
Chad Ford(1:12 PM)




I was Lillard's biggest fan last year and I didn't anticipate him playing this well, this soon. The thing I loved about Lillard then (and now) is that he's such a hard worker. He spent the summer improving his game. He's done that every year he was a college player too. I don't think he's come close to hitting his ceiling yet though I do agree that his age and body helped him compete right away. Neil Olshey was giving me crap about my "B+" grade for the Blazers on draft night in Maui on Monday. Lillard was an A. It was the Meyers Leonard pick I wasn't in love with. But Blazers might have been right about that one too.

Ryan (Virginia beach)



are the Wizards the new Clippers? I'm an optimist, and the only thing I can be optimistic about is the chance for another high draft pick. This is just a horrible and horribly put together team.
Chad Ford(1:13 PM)




Don't think so for the simple fact that I think they have a much better owner who will do what it takes to turn this team around. However, I am a bit surprised at the blueprint early on. I'm not sure what the Wizard front office has done to keep their jobs. Even with a healthy John Wall, a healthy Nene and a more mature Brad Beal (give him time folks) they aren't that good.

Stephen (Ok)



Would you agree that K-Martin's play so far has softened the blow of losing Harden more than people expected?
Chad Ford(1:15 PM)




No. He's been good but he's not a long-term solution for them and I don't think he plays the same role that Harden did for them. I've yet to find another GM in the league who liked that deal for the Thunder which is rare given the high level of respect everyone (including me) has for Sam Presti.

Nathan ((SA))



Do you think Memphis and the Clippers are contenders in west?
Chad Ford(1:16 PM)




I do. Think both teams are on par with San Antonio, Lakers and Thunder.

Sasha (The D)



Hey Chad, how surprised are you by Andre Drummond's early play and what do you think his ceiling is?
Chad Ford(1:19 PM)




Not surprised long-term. Anthony Davis was the only other player in the draft with his physical gifts. Drummond in fact, may have more. But surprised he's this productive this early. If he keeps up the learning curve, he'll eventually, along with Greg Monroe, form one of the best young front lines in the league. But again, it's early.

[mn3]

Drummond is now third on Thorpe's rookie watch.

While the experts coming into the 2012 draft rated this as a pretty poor draft year, I've been very impressed by this class. I think there are at least 3 guys who have a chance to be legitimate big time stars with Lillard, AD and AD, and perhaps two others who aren't too far from that status in MKG and Barnes. (If Barnes had MKG's work ethic and intangibles, then he'd be a big time star, but then if I had MKG's work ethic, so would I).

There are other rookies this year who I like a lot in terms of being really productive players. Henson (the guy I wanted the Pistons to draft until Drummond became available), Nicholson, Harkless, Meyers Leonard, Sullinger.

I don't have much opinion yet on guys like Brian Roberts, Jae Crowder,Waiters, Beal or Zeller.

Other rookies who were not drafted in 2012 like Valanciunas, Singler, and Shved all seem like seriously good NBA players. And I still think we've got a pretty good chance of liking English, Middleton and Slava.

[B.I.G.]

You don't like Waiters game? I think he can be pretty good, now his work ethic is another issue but I think he has the talent.

[mn3]

Originally Posted by B.I.G.

You don't like Waiters game? I think he can be pretty good, now his work ethic is another issue but I think he has the talent.

Just haven't watched him at all B.I.G.

[tin mad dog]

Big Pup drew a pup?



Andre Drummond ‘wrote his university’s name and drew a dog on fire throwing up a hot dog’ PistonPowered

[ThaMaestro]

Is there anything that guy is not good at?

[Dave Bing]

My goodness... He just perfectly captured the essence of a husky. We should have him design our next logo. Maybe a horse with tailpipes.

[Big Jerm]

Are those legs, or teets?

[ThaMaestro]

I'm just posting to show off my new avatar in hopes of winning a Pally in the long awaited 2011 Palace awards.

[hack]

I know you were joking about the essence of husky, Bing, but that is indeed precisely how husky ears look.

[Big Jerm]

I'm now wondering what C.O.N.N. in the picture stands for. Has Andre created a new acronym with those periods inserted? Genius at work?

[tin mad dog]

Coaching Occurs Nearly Never?

[Big Jerm]

Coach Opie Needs Narcotics?

[tin mad dog]

Or Coach Opie Needs Nerlens?

[mn3]

Drummond is now close to overtaking A. Davis for best rookie PER. He's also 7th among all centers in the league - ahead, for now, of Dwight Howard.

I don't think it's far-fetched that the way Frank is using him that he can continue gaining momentum in the 2nd half of the season, and that he can strongly contend for ROY.

Given what I'm seeing from him, I'm not sure who I'd pick if I had the #1 pick in last year's draft, AD or AD. I think Lillard would be my third pick.

[tin mad dog]

I think it's time Frank plays him 25 minutes every game. Maxiell's points, rebounds, and blocks are all down over the last 10 games and his FG% is 34%. Max is still logging the same amount of minutes, which is 5 mpg more than his career high. Maybe he's getting tired?

[whoDean]

Andre Drummond scored 11 points, hauled in 14 rebounds and rejected five shots for the Pistons in their victory over the Wizards.

The last rookie to reach that level in all three categories was Dwight Howard on April 6, 2005. Howard scored 14 points, grabbed 15 rebounds and blocked seven shots for Orlando in an overtime loss to Chicago.

[RugbyPike#11]

I agree that he needs more minutes. He needs to get a couple different runs each half because he wears himself play. The kid wears himself out hustling around the court, so I'd like to see him get two different 6-8 minute stretches in every half. That would work out to about 24-32 minutes a game. Given his level of production, I think you want him out there for those kinds of minutes.

I can't wait to see him in a couple years when he starts developing his low post game. He and Monroe playing high/low could be a thing of beauty!

[mn3]

That's a pretty interesting statistic. Drummond striving to get to Howard's current level of play seem like a good goal. I think it's possible that Andre can achieve that level of proficiency as a defender and a rebounder. He seems to be close to, or every bit, the athlete Howard is. And his instincts on defense seem to be outstanding. When 'Dre gets stronger aned more experienced, he's going to be a monster.

My question is whether he has upside as an offensive player that could exceed Howards. My thought so far is that he does have that potential. He's incredibly raw, but he's super coordinated. I think he'll become a much better shooter, including a free throw shooter, than Howard ever became. Drummond has outstanding hands, and looks like a very good passing big man.

Maybe the threshhold question comes down to this: How bad does he want to be truly great? So far, so good with him in that area.

[DYNOMITE]

What about Andre's .400 free-throw percentage leads you to believe he will much better than Dwight?

[mn3]

Originally Posted by DYNOMITE

What about Andre's .400 free-throw percentage leads you to believe he will much better than Dwight?

Just the eye-ball test. IMO, he looks coordinated at the line - a lot more so than when I saw him this summer. He has a nice looking shot -- it's just something that's going to take a lot of repetition over the next several years. Karl Malone started off as a horrible free throw shooter when he came into the league. But he worked on it, and it became a big strength for him.

I agree, of course, that it's an "if" and not a sure thing. But when I watch him shoot, I think he's a lot better than what I'd expected before he got to Detroit. So, I'm hopeful.

[whoDean]

Heard he wore a bowling glove trying to fix the FT stroke at practice yesterday.

[DYNOMITE]

Originally Posted by mn3

Just the eye-ball test. IMO, he looks coordinated at the line - a lot more so than when I saw him this summer. He has a nice looking shot -- it's just something that's going to take a lot of repetition over the next several years. Karl Malone started off as a horrible free throw shooter when he came into the league. But he worked on it, and it became a big strength for him.

I agree, of course, that it's an "if" and not a sure thing. But when I watch him shoot, I think he's a lot better than what I'd expected before he got to Detroit. So, I'm hopeful.

I misunderstood. I thought when you said you thought AD would be a better free-throw shooter than Dwight that you were talking about how many go in, not how good their form is.

[mn3]

... because it's such an impossible leap from "good form" to "making a better percentage of free throws."

[mn3]

Profile Paroxysm: Andre Drummond: Big Kid | Hardwood Paroxysm

[hack]

Maybe the threshhold question comes down to this: How bad does he want to be truly great? So far, so good with him in that area.

Everything you've read indicates this, save for the two times you read the coach saying he needs to practice harder and then that time Tayshaun said it too. Other than that, it's pretty clear this kid eats, sleeps and breathes.

[mn3]

you'll know in 4 and 1 half years. The rest of us already know

[hack]

Good comeback though, applause for that.

[mn3]

Ty. :-)

Happy holidays hack, and everyone.

[The King]

Drummond is a freak, but he still is learning how to play. He gets out of position a lot and has next to nothing offensively. I have no problem with the 20 mins per game. You don't want to give him huge mins if he is picking up bad habits.

[Stefan S]

"has next to nothing offensively"

Bullshit! He has a step through that is reminiscent of Hakeem's step through when he was still a soccer player (before starting to play hoops) and a nice little jump hook. Also, he has great soft hands and a beautiful touch. He is shooting 0.56 from the floor. Also, he is a very good passer. That's not next to nothing.

[tin mad dog]

He's missed quite a few put-backs but I think a lot of that is just nerves.